New Trading Card Shipping Method - Packaging Questions

[kosmosattik]

This was accidently posted in one of the newbie forums by mistake so I'll take a second shot where it belongs.

Despite complaints I've read in this forum, I'm willing to give this a trial run.  Anybody know where just a couple of the paperboard kind can be purchased at brick and mortar at a sensible cost?  My local Walmart does not carry them.  The PO has only what look like cardboard at an exorbitant price.  Not ready for bulk without a trial run.

As to the issue or cardboard vs. paperboard, I see on-line sales in bulk where some are described as cardboard, few paperboard, a few give a thickness specification, most not.  Is there a difference between cardboard and paperboard for these purposes?  Has anybody figured out optimal thickness to distinguish between the two?  Has anybody used product described as cardboard and had it go through without issues?

The requirements for using this shipping method are quite specific in order to be machine readable:  flexible, no plastics, max 1/4" thickness, specific aspect ratios allowed, specific placement of the label, max 3 oz.  I see problems reported re:  no tracking number, back billing of overcharges, non-delivery.

Has anybody with absolute assurance that they have fastidiously followed the directions to a tee  still encountered problems?  It strikes me that a failure of any one requirement would kick it out of machine sorting after which I imagine anything can happen, including ending up in the "we'll get to it when we get to it" pile.  Hey, a 3.1 oz package one thought was 3.0 might end up in that pile.  Fast and loose shippers need not respond.  

[collectiblesportstuff · Accepted solution]

I have been using the new ebay standard envelope since the end of January. The first week it was sort of trial and error. But after a week or so it seems to be working well for me. I sell mostly small items like sports cards that fit inside a #6 3/4 envelope. I can ship up to three ounces for .91 cents. About 99% of what I ship is only 2 ounces for .71 cents. It can not be thicker than 1/4" . I don't take any chances and always put a "DO NOT MACHINE"  sticker on the front of the envelope. Tracking is now included in this price. A very big savings over USPS if you want an item tracked. I just insert the blank envelope into the printer and it prints return address, delivery address, postage, and a bar code that gets scanned by USPS while in transit and at the delivery. However, there have been a few times where the postal delivery guy did not scan at the time of delivery. No problems there so far. I did have something happen last week......I mailed 2 sports cards worth about $8 to someone in Michigan with this new system. The tracking showed that it was delivered, however the buyer, who was also a seller but was not familiar with the new ebay standard envelope system, filed a claim against me for item not received. Ebay immediately put $8 on hold until the dispute was resolved.  I responded to the claim through the ebay system and showed proof of delivery with the tracking number under their new system. 24 hours later I got a notice from ebay saying that the dispute was found in my favor and they gave me back my $8. It's been a long time since I have gotten some of that good old "seller protection" you hear so much about. Quite frankly I was stunned. I believe that the ebay standard envelope is one of the best things that ebay has ever done for us sellers.

[kosmosattik]

Though you didn't answer my specific questions you gave enough useful info to warrant the green check mark. 

However, I'd be surprised if the PO honored your "Do Not Scan" request--all the specifications are designed for machine scanning which is explicitly stated.  That makes sense given the price.   Do you have any indication that they honored that request?

One supposes your complaining buyer thought he was getting a normal PWE without tracking and thought he could pull a fast one, which is why I would never sell anything without tracking and why this option is worth at least testing.

Anyway, I think I'd prefer a mailer with a little more heft than a 24lb. paper envelope, if that's what you're using.

On a related topic, eBay says this shipping method will work for up to 15 loose cards.  I just grabbed 15 commons at random, squeezed them, and put them up against a ruler.  They measure exactly 1/4 inch.  Add a mailer and the package would exceed the limitation.  Further, the specifications state that the envelope or mailer must be of uniform thickness, also making sense given it's a machine scan item.  Yet they seem to suggest you could pop a pack or that 15 lot in a PWE which would not be of uniform thickness besides the 1/4" issue.  I don't anticipate using this shipping for 15 cards or a pack, but it points out there may be questions of consistency in the instructions in other matters.

[onefootflipper]

I do both cards in envelopes and cards in the paperboard mailers. Standard envelope shipping has a huge problem rate in general, mostly because it often takes 2 weeks longer than stated and the tracking is more miss than hit.

I have noticed no difference in problem rates between the orders I shipped in the paperboard mailers and the ones that I use envelopes for. Most of my orders I just use envelopes for. Low value cards I put in cut up binder pages, with the good card in the middle of a half dozen worthless ones, and then I tape that in the envelope. If it is over $10 I used a top loader instead. If it gets closer to $20 then I used a top-loader and a paperboard mailer.

I really haven't had a problem going over weight, it is pretty hard to go over 3 ounces unless you are cheating on the number of cards they allow in the order.

[kosmosattik]

First you said more problems with standard envelopes, then you said no difference in the next paragraph.  That's confusing.

The mailers you've had success with--are they described as paperboard or cardboard?  Cardboard appears to be cheaper but eBay pointed to a paperboard as an example.

[kosmosattik]

Well, I've given up on getting a cogent answer about cardboard vs. paperboard mailers.  So, I bought a pack of these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0887WBCRZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

With free Prime shipping and the 6% off coupon, the unit cost was $0.49 which is the best I've found in a small quantity.  I only wanted a couple to try out, but after a more brick and mortar stops I couldn't find them.  Office Depot had none of any kind; the UPS store had some that are too big and cost $1.25.

[kosmosattik]

I do like the cut up binder page idea for low priced cards.  I have some pages I have no use for that are already serrated.  Better than penny sleeves, cheaper than top loaders, good solution for one or a couple of cards in a mailer.

[onefootflipper]

What I meant is that I am having tons of problems when selecting the standard envelope method for mailing, but that my rate of problems is about the same for actual envelopes vs. paperboard mailers. I don't think I am going to buy paperboard mailers again. I have shipped about 500 of them just in envelopes with extra worthless cards for protection and I haven't had a single damage complaint. 5 bulk cards cost me 1.5 cents and I constantly get old binder pages to chop up for free from collection purchases. Top loaders and paperboard mailers cost a lot more.

[49erfan02]

Did the post office accept these for the trading card shipping?

[kosmosattik]

It depends on what you mean by "Post Office".  This was recently discussed at length in another thread, but what I've concluded from that discussion and three recent shipments using paperboard mailers is this:

1)  The label does not not have a bar code that anybody at a local post office can scan with their hand scanners.  Consequently, there is no "received at PO" entry in the tracking.  On the first try my the counter clerk just tossed it in a bin for outgoing.  I can just as easily toss them in the bulk mail mailbox at the PO or leave them in my mailbox for the mail carrier to pick up if he hasn't come that day already.  Any of these ways works out the same; my local PO starts loading the truck at 5:30 PM for delivery to the first distribution center in the chain.  I saw one comment where a guy was told by a clerk that his 6x6 mailer did not conform when tried to hand it off.  I'd guess this "screening" would be an exception.  My postal clerks know nothing about this shipping method.

2) There is a machine-scannable bulk mail code on the label, a series of small vertical dashes you will often seen on utility bills and other such stuff.  The eBay requirements for packaging are designed to conform with PO requirements for machine scanning.  If the package does not conform, does not go through the distribution scanner, I have no idea how long it might be delayed or whether there will be additional charges hitting your account on the back end.   I hope to never find out.  It is incumbent upon you and you alone to make sure your package conforms to the rules.

3) Once my packages were scanned at that first distribution center then the first tracking status shows up.   Of the three I've shipped so far, tracking shows up for the second scan at the second distribution center close to the final destination.

4) Since there is nothing for a post office to scan lacking a sorting machine, I'm not expecting an "out for delivery" and certainly not a "delivered" tracking update like you'd get with a First Class package.  How will I know if the package is actually received?  I guess if 30 days pass without a complaint then I guess it will have gotten to the buyer's mailbox or PO box OK.  As one high volume seller on youtube put it last December, shipping PWEs with no tracking at all, maybe 1 out of 100 don't get there at all and half of those are people lying.  From my lifetime experience sending and receiving First Class mail, which this amounts to, I'd say 1 out of 1,000 don't get where they are going if the rules are followed and correct postage is applied.  He might be underestimating the percentage of false claims of non-receipt.   Having at least the in-transit tracking that is provided with this service demonstrating the item was in fact shipped, false claims should be reduced.   

[ry91214]

I have sent out close to a couple hundred orders so far using the Ebay Standard Envelope program.

I purchased brown, 6x8" paperboard mailers that have a ripcord to open. These are thick and sturdy, and meet requirements. Here is what I have learned:

Like a seller above mentioned, when I am at post office counter, postal clerk will scan my first class packages. With these "Ebay Standard Envelope" items, they are viewed as "Second hand" mail. Just gathered up, and dumped in bin. No beginning tracking. In fact, it might take a couple of days before tracking shows anything other than "label created". Then, miraculously, it will have traveled across country to the East Coast! Crazy!

Problems: Unfortunately, I am beginning to have to deal with a number of problems from customers.

7 this week alone. The problems are that the package says "Delivered" -my customer will tell me they didn't receive it. Ebay immediately holds MY FUNDS. Customers are aware of the "Ebay Guarantee" on these orders. Ebay made the deal with USPS. If item shows delivered, shouldn't I be cleared of any wrongdoing at that point? Ebay should now be on the hook, and deal with the handholding I have been doing with customers. Customers are saying it isn't USPS because it has weird tracking... In any case, it is time consuming. 5 packages have been recovered within a couple days, some still outstanding. I do not like ebay holding my funds, when they have the handshake deal with USPS. Customers want the refund, when item shows delivered. A solution needs to be provided. It is all up in the air right now.

Thanks for listening.

[phca15]

I used the "recommended" mailers that were in a blog post when this shipping method was received.  PRE-ORDER 6” x 8” Paperboard Mailjacket Envelope (No padding) | eBay Twice I have had complaints from buyers that said they had to pay upwards of an additional $3 at the post office to get the items to them. I weigh every item prior to shipping and if I am even close to the 3oz then I will pay the extra for a bubble mailer.  That leaves thickness as the cause. My post office told me that these envelopes generally don't like being machined. So even if they are under the allotted 1/4 inch think, if they are kicked out of the system, many employees will not run then again and just assume they are over the 1/4. They USPS employee that handled one of these items charged my customer and he worked that the post office. He proved that it was under the 1/4 and under the 3oz and he still had to pay. Needless to say, I returned the difference to him as good customer service, but lost money in the end on the deal. From now on, I wont use these from the basic mailing of up to 3 oz regardless of card(s). PWE and a stamp was a problem less that 1:1000 for me to date.

I have to agree with the previous statements. In the last couple weeks I have received a few complaints of individuals "not receiving the cards". I go to tracking and the only status is "Label Created". This is aggravating because I ship from the same post office every day. This is a very inconsistent service to this point to say the least. 

Now here is a good one I was hit with. 

--I show that the item was in fact scanned at a sorting facility but no more detail from there.

--Then 30 days later your customer complains to ebay of not receiving an item and even though you can show that you sent it and it has been scanned by the USPS taking possession of the item, Ebay will still but the funds on hold eventually siding with the buyer due to the automated process. 

-- You get ebay customer service on the phone and they tell you that you need to file an insurance claim.

--Okay, I go ahead and do that. (Very Cumbersome Process)

--Here is the kicker! When you file a claim, you can ONLY file a claim for the "sold value" of the product. Not the total including shipping cost.

--Buyer is given back 100% of their money by ebay

--You receive payment from the Insurance you only receive the card value

--You are left paying for shipping w/tracking

--You don't have the card returned to you (eventually it will be delivered to the customer when it is found in the sorting facility, unless it was delivered to the wrong address)

So in summary, you end up paying for shipping on something that never goes anywhere and the only ones that win is the 3rd party postage company ebay hires and Ebay. 

[nochiso]

While reading this I had to double check to see if I was the one who wrote it lol.  I have the exact same process and went through a very similar issue with a item not received claim (the envelope was scanned as delivered about 2 hours before it was actually delivered, buyer opened claim after running to his mailbox, and once it showed up buyer kindly closed the claim).  Printing the labels was a hassel at first for "fitment" reasons but copy pasting it onto a #6 3/4 envelope template in Word has been a godsend. Good response!

[jodem_1614]

The post office here in Cincinnati Ohio on Dalton Ave the main branch says my envelope of 1.4 oz and no where near 1/4 thick can not be sent eBay shipping but first class $4.50 from Cincinnati Ohio to Louisville Kentucky SMH I have been sending cards the same exact way for years and years but an employee took it upon themselves after I had to file several complaints with the post master to get my packages and put them somewhere until the post master calls and forces them to ship the items out. 3 months now straight and they won't stop and don't care said in the post office to me today that they don't acknowledge eBay shipping labels period dot! But I know it's a direct attack on me personally. What can I do I've called eBay 100X and filed 100 complaints with the post master and eBay will not send me my money because I took everything down that was eBay shipping because they are not going to allow my packages to go by. Can I do anything? Lawyer? What kind of lawyer? I have everything on tape including them saying that they delivered my items and month and a half later there they are in the mail box SMH I'm going insane because I am trying to sell my collectables to fund a campsite for the family and I have a personal employee looking for my packages even though eBay shipping is 75% of all USPS business. Any advice please

[kh-gary]

Hi everyone,

Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread HERE if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.

Thank you for understanding.