INR for direct signature required

[johnschuricht]

Its been interesting reading past discussions on this topic but I am curious what the current consensus is.

I bought an item recently from a 6,000+ feedback US seller for about $300 which is under the $750 seller protection requirement. Shipping was listed FedEx ground or home with no other specific shipping details listed. The seller decided to mark the shipment as direct signature required, that option or another specified that I can't see prevents any changes by myself for signature release, signing a door tag, specifying delivery time/location, hold for pickup, etc. A signature is not possible so even though other packages were left by FedEx during the delivery attempts, this one will be returned since it had 3 delivery attempts. Even more fun, FedEx has no locations near here so its 50 miles away.

20 years on ebay and this is the first time a seller has done this to me and I am more than a little PO'd. The item will be going back to the seller and I am happy it's 60 lbs and was free shipping. My question is would it be better to file an INR on ebay, use a different category, file with paypal or jump to a chargeback? The seller is going to eat the shipping since they changed the shipping terms by not specifying in the ad that there is a direct signature requirement and being under $750 where ebay terms would provide assumption of a signature requirement.

Today was the third delivery attempt. Current status on ebay shows out for delivery and "Delivery exception - Customer not available or business closed" under details.

[a_c_green]

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@johnschuricht wrote:

My question is would it be better to file an INR on ebay, use a different category, file with paypal or jump to a chargeback?

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I think an INR would not be successful as, technically, you were the one who failed to take delivery, so the subsequent return to the seller is not his fault. eBay sees a delivery attempt to be the same as a delivery.

Maybe you could ask the seller to ship it again without the unnecessary Signature Required.

[mvls1]

Given that over 1.7 million packages are stolen or go missing every day in the U.S. the seller probably felt that in order to ensure safe delivery for you and not be at risk to lose $300 they should use signature service. While it may be an inconvenience to have to sign for delivery you need to ask yourself if it was stolen from your drop off location would you expect a refund or be willing to accept the loss yourself? Most buyers would ask the seller to make good on the lost item and therefore it seems reasonable for the seller to require signature for delivery to protect both of you.

It is a sad fact that nowadays nothing left out is safe, especially this time of year!

[johnschuricht]

Thank you a_c_green. The INR is the grey area I have some concern with. This was a common enough item that I have many options on where to purchase it, this seller will not be that option at this point. Shipping it again is not an option I will offer or accept not that I expect a 60 lb item to be reshipped.

[richard1rst]

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@mvls1 wrote:

Given that over 1.7 million packages are stolen or go missing every day in the U.S.

Agreed that 1.7 million is a mind numbing figure. But let’s put that in perspective.

According to online research

UPS delivers an average of 15.8 million packages per day (its single day record was 28 million)

FedEx delivers an average of 4.3 million packages per day (its single day record was 22.6 million)

USPS delivers an average of 484 million pieces (mail and packages combined) per day (its single day record was 28.2 million packages)

Suddenly 1.7 million seems like a pretty small figure.

The article in question also goes on to cite certain areas and circumstances where theft is more of a problem than others. So the comment that “nothing left put is safe” is an over generalization. I have been in this house for 15 years and I have never lost a package. Not even , for that matter, any of the deliveries from my suppliers

Of course, as a long distance seller, we have no idea whether the neighborhood in question is high or low on that list.

But as long as we are protected by seller protections (oh stop the laughing - it actually DOES work) a signature requirement seems to create more problems for working families than it solves.

The OPs case is an example. What is the likelihood the OP will ever buy from that seller again?

I have had a number of cases where tracking shows it delivered, the buyer says they never got it, they filed an INR case which was closed in my favor. In fairness eBay and/or Paypal have issued courtesy refunds without affecting my account.

[johnschuricht]

Mvls, this is the exact reason it has been so difficult to find useful advice on this subject. People interject with their own opinions while completely changing the subject in the process. This has nothing to do with missing and stolen packages. At this point, the terms agreed to under the listing of this item were voided and the item is going back to the seller due to their decision to change the terms of the sale which prevented delivery. Had the item been over the $750 threshold set by ebay for seller protection or the seller stated their intent in the listing to change default shipping options, I would be responsible for agreeing to the terms and making arrangements for that type of delivery. The issue at hand is dealing with ebay's policies and how the status of the shipment is seen by ebay's bots so as to employ the correct decisions on filing for a full refund of the purchase price.

[richard1rst]

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@johnschuricht wrote:

This has nothing to do with missing and stolen packages. At this point, the terms agreed to under the listing of this item were voided and the item is going back to the seller due to their decision to change the terms of the sale which prevented delivery.

That is a valid argument. If the listing never said that a signature was going to be required then suddenly asking for the signature would seem to be the seller's mistake. An INR claim would seem to be valid because of the seller's action.

[lamber9347]

I agree with this point. It sounds like you have a case where the seller changed the requirements for shipping when they didn't get your approval in advance. I can understand why the seller shipped with signature required but I don't understand why they didn't tell the buyer in advance and gotten approval. The seller may be retired and has forgotten most households are full of working folks and no one is home to sign anymore these days.

The last house I lived in, prior to my current home, there was no UPS office anywhere near me. I only purchased items which would be shipped via USPS because I worked regular hours, same as UPS was open. It was impossible for me to leave work early enough to drive way out of my way to get to the one and only UPS store within my vicinity. Of course I purchased an item listed as USPS but when I arrived from work there was a note from UPS saying I had four days to pick it up or it would be returned to sender. This was 15 years ago and it was returned to sender. I got a nasty message back from seller and I explained they changed the shipping method on me or I wouldn't have purchased from them. Seller said it was their choice who to use for shipping and I was just a deadbeat buyer, wished me to get cancer and die a miserable death.... all this for a $15 item. This was before the MBG but I did get refunded entirely.... sorry I digress but this made me think of that story from so long ago....

[lja440]

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@johnschuricht wrote:

Its been interesting reading past discussions on this topic but I am curious what the current consensus is.

I bought an item recently from a 6,000+ feedback US seller for about $300 which is under the $750 seller protection requirement. Shipping was listed FedEx ground or home with no other specific shipping details listed. The seller decided to mark the shipment as direct signature required, that option or another specified that I can't see prevents any changes by myself for signature release, signing a door tag, specifying delivery time/location, hold for pickup, etc. A signature is not possible so even though other packages were left by FedEx during the delivery attempts, this one will be returned since it had 3 delivery attempts. Even more fun, FedEx has no locations near here so its 50 miles away.

20 years on ebay and this is the first time a seller has done this to me and I am more than a little PO'd. The item will be going back to the seller and I am happy it's 60 lbs and was free shipping. My question is would it be better to file an INR on ebay, use a different category, file with paypal or jump to a chargeback? The seller is going to eat the shipping since they changed the shipping terms by not specifying in the ad that there is a direct signature requirement and being under $750 where ebay terms would provide assumption of a signature requirement.

Today was the third delivery attempt. Current status on ebay shows out for delivery and "Delivery exception - Customer not available or business closed" under details.

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I get that constantly with FedEx, even with packages that do not require a signature. They just slap a door tag on the front of my mailbox turn around and drive away. They have even done this while we were in the driveway. They will input loose dog, a very friendly 14 year old shepherd mix that has close to no teeth.  I once came home when the phone company was working on the box by the road. Sandy was napping with her head in his lap.  Or they say no secure location. My garage door is never down unless I have a large Epoxy project curing (once had a bird land in one). I am also at the end of a very rural dead end road, its family, the mail carrier and school bus that is the main traffic. Once or twice a year the township trustee will drive it, and maybe as often someone will make a wrong turn. Literally I have left over a dozen troop care packages (LFRB's) sitting down by the mailbox in the bucket of my Kubota without a single worry.  

[lja440]

I should add that I have a 40 minute commute to work south of my home and FedEx is over an hour north of my home. This makes it very problematic to pick up a package. Anyone switching carriers from USPS or UPS to FedEx usually gets the package returned to them.

[vintagecraze50]

Totally agree. Signature tracking can be inconvenient but necessary for expensive items to insure they do not get lost/stolen and is a protective measure to avoid phony INR claims on PP which you cannot win without a signature. I do believe that sellers should make it crystal clear in the listing that sig will be required and to send a message as well with the order that they will be required to sign.

[vintagecraze50]

That’s true, FedEX is more problematic than USPS. Just a note on a FED EX issue I had once. We had a new delivery driver who deposited 3 weeks of my packages all over my neighborhood. I was fortunate to be able to hunt them down by asking my neighbors and retrieved a few. The rest were completely lost. That is why signature is very important.

[nobody*s_perfect]

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@vintagecraze50 wrote: ... necessary for expensive items to insure they do not get lost/stolen and is a protective measure to avoid phony INR claims on PP which you cannot win without a signature...

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For transactions up to $750, a signature is not required for seller protection; a delivery scan will do.

[myangelandmyprincess]

I understand this frustration. Walmart did this to me last year on a PS4.  While I was unable to sign a door tag or sign on line for it to just be left it did give me the option to redirect to another address (I considered sending it to my fiancées work) and it gave the option of having it delivered to businesses that partnered with fed ex.  I had it sent to my local Walgreens and picked it up when I was able. 

[long-gone]

Do you have a Walgreens near you? FedEx will drop off your package there for you to pick up.  Says 55lb limit but they may do 60lbs. I doubt Walgreens has a scale.

https://www.fedex.com/en-us/shipping/onsite/walgreens-package-pickup.html