eBay

mewchu2 · ‎05-19-2018

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Little-Giant-18504-142-Compact-Cage-Ladder-4-6-IAA-Side-Wheels-Safety-Net/2...

The above link is the exact model ladder I have. I am looking to sell it, craigslist turned up only scammers so I would like to try ebay. If anyone has experience with shipping something this large I would really appreciate some input. It should weigh around 80 pounds.

Thank you!

green-night · ‎05-20-2018

@phono_0490xxxxxx wrote:
@green-night wrote:

b) be reduced to cynicism by saying it will never be remedied by ebay,

It won't. ~~eBay IMO is not the best venue to list local pick up items for a myriad of reasons as this thread suggests. And final value fees for local pick up? No thanks.~~

3 issues there.

Skepticism in everything is healthy, [especially re. matters of 'faith'] but it can be more difficult than cynicism... after all, to be cynical is adopting a position of defeat.

Cynicism achives NOTHING.
The afflicted should fade back because they can adverly affect those who can and do seek change.

You aren't seeing the forest for the trees.

Why fix a complicated problem when there is a much easier and less costly solution?

phono_0490xxxxxx · ‎05-20-2018

LOL 'Mobile friendly". What a joke.

I had data function by my phone service provider disconnected because the phone [not a lousy one] is so 'b' grade as an internet browser. Nothing like a 60" monitor connected to a laptop and a proper non RSI inducing keyboard.

So site function and policy [maybe] debased by silly mobile phone limitations.

I find it odd that help page subject windows have to cater for those with short attention spans by citing read times. Pathetic.

Anyhow, we digress.

Good luck with raising the matter with ebay reps here.

That would take a degree of critical thinking and 'bull dog tenacity' to extract a straight answer I guess. Takes the use of the word WHY again and again when there is a non-answer.

I tire of the YES, YES, YES, YES, promises that end up meaning NO.

phono_0490xxxxxx · ‎05-20-2018

Why fix a complicated problem when there is a much easier and less costly solution?

Ok... I'll play.

Say it.

I know this, I don't sell !

I'm not buying essential life support here.

My investment in this misery is very low and I can happly walk away from using this site to buy.

Been there, done that, too easy to do again.

It's not like I'm dependant on ebay to scratch out a living, having to endure the un-reasonable conditions.

I do have empathy for honest sellers who suffer cruddy hastily devised policy, because that flows onto buyers experience. [especially when the 'everyone a thief - ebay has the remedy' ideology comes down].

green-night · ‎05-20-2018

@phono_0490xxxxxx wrote:

Why fix a complicated problem when there is a much easier and less costly solution?

Ok... I'll play.
Say it.

I know this, I don't sell !
I'm not buying essential life support here.

My investment in this misery is very low and I can happly walk away from using this site to buy.
Been there, done that, too easy to do again.

It's not like I'm dependant on ebay to scratch out a living, having to endure the un-reasonable conditions.
I do have empathy for honest sellers who suffer cruddy hastily devised policy, because that flows onto buyers experience. [especially when the 'everyone a thief - ebay has the remedy' ideology comes down].

Yeah, you really don't get it.

Anonymous · ‎05-21-2018

@missjen831 wrote:

@atikovi wrote:

@missjen831 wrote:

If the buyer pays with PayPal, they are covered by the MBG and the seller is required to pay for return shipping. There is no local-pickup exclusion to that.

Can you show where this policy is written? That the seller is required to pay for return shipping when there was no shipping in the first place. The point of local pickup is to sell items too large or heavy to ship.

It’s the MBG. There is no exclusion to rule that the seller pays for return shipping on SNADs. I am pretty sure the item has to be shipped to the seller, it’s the only way to prove the buyer returned it. And again the MBG doesn’t say local pickups are an exception to the rule. But Maybe i’m Wrong though...wouldn’t be the first time....

maybe Trinton can confirm how this would work. @Anonymous can you please chime in here. A local pickup SNAD, seller pays for return shipping right? If an item, let’s say it’s a ladder, is listed for local pickup only and the buyer pays with PayPal,

and they meet the seller in person, they take the ladder home and go to extend it and discover it is broken. The buyer files an SNAD. Does the seller pay for return shipping? If not, how does the buyer return the item and prove it to eBay?

Hi @missjen831, happy to clear this up! At this time, there is no difference in procedures for a Return Request for items that were shipped to the buyer and those picked up by the buyer. As long as the transaction meets our eligibility requirements, the purchase is protected under the eBay Money Back Guarantee in the same way. The seller would be responsible for return shipping costs if the buyer needed to return the item for a reason we consider to be not as described. That being said, since the item is listed locally, the seller would likely be able to work out picking up the return themselves and have this documented clearly in the communication on eBay. If this is not an option, the item would need to be shipped back at the seller's cost.

lacemaker3 · ‎05-21-2018

Thanks @Anonymous for making that clear. Seller is still responsible for paying for return shipping on an MBG claim, even if the item was originally local pickup.

@atikovi wrote:
@missjen831 wrote:
If the buyer pays with PayPal, they are covered by the MBG and the seller is required to pay for return shipping. There is no local-pickup exclusion to that.
Can you show where this policy is written? That the seller is required to pay for return shipping when there was no shipping in the first place. The point of local pickup is to sell items too large or heavy to ship.

That policy is written here:

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy?id=4210
Read our full policy > When a buyer wants to return an item or the item doesn't match the listing
...
After confirming that the item was returned to the seller, a refund of the cost of the item (less any loss in value, if applicable) and original shipping is [refunded] sent to the original payment method or the buyer's PayPal account. If the buyer arranged shipping or picked up the item, we may not refund the amount of original shipping or pickup cost. The seller is required to reimburse eBay for the amount of the refund. Learn more about reimbursement.

When an item is returned to the seller
... The cost of return shipping for an item that is not as described is the seller's responsibility and, in cases where an eBay-generated return shipping label is used for the return, the return shipping label cost is placed on the seller's invoice. You can find further details about reimbursements in our User Agreement.
...

When an item isn't returned to the seller
In some instances, we may not require that an item be returned to the seller. In these situations, we refund the buyer and may seek reimbursement from the seller, for example if:
The seller chooses not to accept a return request or provide a return shipping label
The

atikovi · ‎05-21-2018

Rather draconian policy. It's one thing to require a seller to refund on an item, but to require them to cover return shipping on a local pickup item that in most cases would be exhorbitant to ship is unfair. Why Ebay doesn't follow Paypal policy on this is unreasonable.

berserkerplanet · ‎05-21-2018

Well, that signals the end of local pickup of anything other than very light/small items on eBay.

Scenario: Buyer drives 500 miles from a state or two over to pick up an International Harvester tractor attachment, inspects item, pays cash for item, and drags it home on a 2 axle trailer. A week later buyer claims some (not included) other attachment/part is missing, or doesn't fit their 1942 Ford Tractor, and cries "SNAD". Seller is now on the hook for either driving 1000 miles or arranging freight pickup?

eBay appears to think there are very few reasons something would not be considered not as described when a buyer cries foul, so no protection there. Is eBay going to reimburse a seller potentially $100's-$1000's of dollars in return shipping when it is found that buyer lied or it was clearly a remorse return after seller was forced to pay for the return?

phono_0490xxxxxx · ‎05-21-2018

@berserkerplanet wrote:
Well, that signals the end of local pickup of anything other than very light/small items on eBay.

Scenario: Buyer drives 500 miles from a state or two over to pick up an International Harvester tractor attachment, inspects item, pays cash for item, and drags it home on a 2 axle trailer. A week later buyer claims some (not included) other ~~attachment/part~~ component is missing, or doesn't fit their 1942 Ford Tractor, and cries "SNAD". Seller is now on the hook for either driving 1000 miles or arranging freight pickup?

eBay appears to think there are very few reasons something would not be considered not as described when a buyer cries foul, so no protection there. Is eBay going to reimburse a seller potentially $100's-$1000's of dollars in return shipping when it is found that buyer lied or it was clearly a remorse return after seller was forced to pay for the return?

In the next post I'll cite the word 'local' further questioning the reply.

In doing so, your scenario is a fair example and specific matters present...

In this case:

1. The buyer is NOT 'local' to the item location.

2. The buyer makes to their satisfaction an 'inspection' and agrees to pay cash.

Note: Lets first assume the seller does not provide a written receipt signed by both buyer and seller stating 'sold used with any possible known/unknown faults or compatibility/fit for purpose issues'... or words to that effect. The receipt has noted photo attachments or written list defining the item and any sundry inclusions [components]. The buyer and seller would retain copies of such an issued receipt and attachments.
Note: eBay does not provide a template document to satisfy any of their requirements or to assist in the determination of any disputes pertaining to refunds they issue charged to the seller.

3. The buyer having paid cash removes the item from sellers location at buyers cost.

Note: The seller is not liable for the damage or loss of a component in transit affected by the buyer or their transport agent and so noted in the sale receipt documentation.

3. The buyer launches a dispute claim process.

4. ebay make a determination based on submitted evidence.

And then....

//quote

Is eBay going to reimburse a seller potentially $100's-$1000's of dollars in return shipping when it is found that buyer lied or it was clearly a remorse return after seller was forced to pay for the return?

//end quote

Lests ignore the possable sales tax paid issues here that may apply which would complicate matters further.

It seems we are assuming ebay makes determinations without a sellers right of reply or ability to submit evidence, such as an apt receipt in this scenario, being a back to front process?

So;

By this stage 'a return of funds' is the result of successful ebay appeal of a rash determination by low order staff at ebay. Lets assume yes, if proven, funds back but no return of your time and cost angst.

or....

A successful claims/appeal case in a proper Court jurisdiction that does apply Law... and so YES, funds back plus costs if sought and awarded.. AND enforced.

Always hard to get fair compensation for your personal time though.

next post @Anonymous

phono_0490xxxxxx · ‎05-21-2018

@Anonymous wrote:
@missjen831 wrote:
@atikovi wrote:
@missjen831 wrote:
If the buyer pays with PayPal, they are covered by the MBG and the seller is required to pay for return shipping. There is no local-pickup exclusion to that.
Can you show where this policy is written? That the seller is required to pay for return shipping when there was no shipping in the first place. The point of local pickup is to sell items too large or heavy to ship.
It’s the MBG. There is no exclusion to rule that the seller pays for return shipping on SNADs. I am pretty sure the item has to be shipped to the seller, it’s the only way to prove the buyer returned it. And again the MBG doesn’t say local pickups are an exception to the rule. But Maybe i’m Wrong though...wouldn’t be the first time....

maybe Trinton can confirm how this would work. @Anonymous can you please chime in here. A local pickup SNAD, seller pays for return shipping right? If an item, let’s say it’s a ladder, is listed for local pickup only and the buyer pays with PayPal,
and they meet the seller in person, they take the ladder home and go to extend it and discover it is broken. The buyer files an SNAD. Does the seller pay for return shipping? If not, how does the buyer return the item and prove it to eBay?
Hi @missjen831, happy to clear this up! At this time, there is no difference in procedures for a Return Request for items that were shipped to the buyer and those picked up by the buyer. As long as the transaction meets our eligibility requirements, the purchase is protected under the eBay Money Back Guarantee in the same way. The seller would be responsible for return shipping costs if the buyer needed to return the item for a reason we consider to be not as described. That being said, since the item is listed locally, the seller would likely be able to work out picking up the return themselves and have this documented clearly in the communication on eBay. If this is not an option, the item would need to be shipped back at the seller's cost.

@Anonymous

@missjen831

1. Why is it that at this time this clearly flawed policy has not been amended to draw a distinction between your typical shipped sale and a local pickup scenario, as per but not limited to example noted in prior posting?

I note that this matter is long outstanding and been the subject of other members submissions calling for amendments. Note previous postings highlighting this fact and the consequential cynicism of some here.

2. The words"Local pickup only" as appear in listings, as appear in eBay script, have a dictionary definition, in their singular and combined use connotation/denotation.

Does this term 'Local pickup only' feature in your eligibility requirements or eBay Money Back Guarantee terms and conditions, given it does infer a regional limitation as 'local'?

3. In review of my last post containing brief summary and notations regarding sales receipts etc.

a) Are submissions of apt sales receipts considered in determinations of MBG, and SNAD cases d d such determinations consider 'reasonable' expectations/liability of sellers and buyers in such cases?

b) Does ebay offer advice and assist buyers and sellers trading 'Local pickup only' by publishing pdf. file copy for free download by members of an apt 'sales reciept' form that would be recognised by ebay or external civil Court jurisdictions?

If not, WHY not?

Awaiting reply.

Anonymous · ‎05-22-2018

@phono_0490xxxxxx wrote:

@berserkerplanet wrote:
Well, that signals the end of local pickup of anything other than very light/small items on eBay.

Scenario: Buyer drives 500 miles from a state or two over to pick up an International Harvester tractor attachment, inspects item, pays cash for item, and drags it home on a 2 axle trailer. A week later buyer claims some (not included) other ~~attachment/part~~ component is missing, or doesn't fit their 1942 Ford Tractor, and cries "SNAD". Seller is now on the hook for either driving 1000 miles or arranging freight pickup?

eBay appears to think there are very few reasons something would not be considered not as described when a buyer cries foul, so no protection there. Is eBay going to reimburse a seller potentially $100's-$1000's of dollars in return shipping when it is found that buyer lied or it was clearly a remorse return after seller was forced to pay for the return?

In the next post I'll cite the word 'local' further questioning the reply.

In doing so, your scenario is a fair example and specific matters present...

In this case:

1. The buyer is NOT 'local' to the item location.

2. The buyer makes to their satisfaction an 'inspection' and agrees to pay cash.

Note: Lets first assume the seller does not provide a written receipt signed by both buyer and seller stating 'sold used with any possible known/unknown faults or compatibility/fit for purpose issues'... or words to that effect. The receipt has noted photo attachments or written list defining the item and any sundry inclusions [components]. The buyer and seller would retain copies of such an issued receipt and attachments.

Note: eBay does not provide a template document to satisfy any of their requirements or to assist in the determination of any disputes pertaining to refunds they issue charged to the seller.

3. The buyer having paid cash removes the item from sellers location at buyers cost.

Note: The seller is not liable for the damage or loss of a component in transit affected by the buyer or their transport agent and so noted in the sale receipt documentation.

3. The buyer launches a dispute claim process.

4. ebay make a determination based on submitted evidence.

And then....

//quote

Is eBay going to reimburse a seller potentially $100's-$1000's of dollars in return shipping when it is found that buyer lied or it was clearly a remorse return after seller was forced to pay for the return?

//end quote

Lests ignore the possable sales tax paid issues here that may apply which would complicate matters further.

It seems we are assuming ebay makes determinations without a sellers right of reply or ability to submit evidence, such as an apt receipt in this scenario, being a back to front process?

So;

By this stage 'a return of funds' is the result of successful ebay appeal of a rash determination by low order staff at ebay. Lets assume yes, if proven, funds back but no return of your time and cost angst.

or....

A successful claims/appeal case in a proper Court jurisdiction that does apply Law... and so YES, funds back plus costs if sought and awarded.. AND enforced.

Always hard to get fair compensation for your personal time though.

next post @Anonymous

Hi @phono_0490xxxxxx, happy to provide more information that may address some of these concerns:

Transactions paid in cash would not qualify for the eBay Money Back Guarantee, so eBay would not be making a determination in a dispute (as a dispute would not be an option on eBay under these circumstances).
We have protections options available if there is evidence that a buyer submitted a false return claim. To minimize the chance of abuse, the specific options would be discussed with a seller having this type of experience and would not be addressed here. Should you find yourself in a situation like this, you are welcome to contact Customer Service to have the details reviewed.
The topic of Local Pickup is one that has commonly raised a great number of concerns in past discussions here on the boards, most of which are unlikely to occur. While I understand the desire to be clear on what protections are and are not available when selling on eBay, I won't be able to engage in a discussion of hypothetical situations regarding this topic. I am happy to clarify policy and specific transaction concerns can be addressed by Customer Service.

I hope this helps clear things up!

phono_0490xxxxxx · ‎05-22-2018

@Anonymous wrote:

Hi @phono_0490xxxxxx, happy to provide more information that may address some of these concerns:

Transactions paid in cash would not qualify for the eBay Money Back Guarantee, so eBay would not be making a determination in a dispute (as a dispute would not be an option on eBay under these circumstances).
We have protections options available if there is evidence that a buyer submitted a false return claim. To minimize the chance of abuse, the specific options would be discussed with a seller having this type of experience and would not be addressed here. Should you find yourself in a situation like this, you are welcome to contact Customer Service to have the details reviewed.
The topic of Local Pickup is one that has commonly raised a great number of concerns in past discussions here on the boards, most of which are unlikely to occur. While I understand the desire to be clear on what protections are and are not available when selling on eBay, I won't be able to engage in a discussion of hypothetical situations regarding this topic. I am happy to clarify policy and specific transaction concerns can be addressed by Customer Service.
I hope this helps clear things up!

^ seriously jen... how is that considered Helpfull?

@Anonymous wrote: - Post 35 -

Hi @missjen831, happy to clear this up! At this time, there is no difference in procedures for a Return Request for items that were shipped to the buyer and those picked up by the buyer. As long as the transaction meets our eligibility requirements, the purchase is protected under the eBay Money Back Guarantee in the same way. The seller would be responsible for return shipping costs if the buyer needed to return the item for a reason we consider to be not as described. That being said, since the item is listed locally, the seller would likely be able to work out picking up the return themselves and have this documented clearly in the communication on eBay. If this is not an option, the item would need to be shipped back at the seller's cost.

Then: Reply 40 / 1. Transactions paid in cash would not qualify for the eBay Money Back Guarantee, so eBay would not be making a determination in a dispute (as a dispute would not be an option on eBay under these circumstances).

So,

41 / 1a. If local pickup only, and paid cash transaction.. this > If this is not an option, the item would need to be shipped back at the seller's cost. < DOES NOT apply?

Yes or No?

41 / 1b. Why is 'other electronic form of payment' a requirement for such a 'Local pickup only' listing?

To require said 'other form' creates the potential for seller liability for return shippng - a trap for inexperienced sellers [and widely unknown to many users unless deeply researched or from a bad experience].

Back to post 40 please, for answers.

40 / 2. The words "Local pickup only" as appear in listings, as appear in eBay text script, have a dictionary definition, in their singular and combined use connotation/denotation.

Does this term 'Local pickup only' feature in your eligibility requirements or eBay Money Back Guarantee terms and conditions, given it does infer a regional limitation as 'local'?

41 / 2a. Where is the limitation by use of the word 'Local' defined for determination of a paypal transaction return liability on a seller?

41 / 3. Hmmmm... the scenario is hypothetical and in defece of the member who seriously posted/questioned this - it is a possable scenario.

I wouldn't hazard a guess the probability of occuring, nor was I asking for such an assesment.

However, it is worthy of reply / discussion because that can seemingly happen if it's 'other form' than cash transaction.

Personally, I'd avoid this trap by use of an apt 'catch all' worded 'sales reciept' documentation.

I advise everyone do so.

So, back to the unanswers post 40,

40 / 3b. Does ebay offer advice and assist buyers and sellers trading 'Local pickup only' by publishing pdf. file copy for free download by members of an apt 'sales reciept' form that would be recognised by ebay determinations process or external civil Court jurisdictions?

If not, WHY not?

Anonymous · ‎05-22-2018

@phono_0490xxxxxx wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

Hi @phono_0490xxxxxx, happy to provide more information that may address some of these concerns:

Transactions paid in cash would not qualify for the eBay Money Back Guarantee, so eBay would not be making a determination in a dispute (as a dispute would not be an option on eBay under these circumstances).

We have protections options available if there is evidence that a buyer submitted a false return claim. To minimize the chance of abuse, the specific options would be discussed with a seller having this type of experience and would not be addressed here. Should you find yourself in a situation like this, you are welcome to contact Customer Service to have the details reviewed.

The topic of Local Pickup is one that has commonly raised a great number of concerns in past discussions here on the boards, most of which are unlikely to occur. While I understand the desire to be clear on what protections are and are not available when selling on eBay, I won't be able to engage in a discussion of hypothetical situations regarding this topic. I am happy to clarify policy and specific transaction concerns can be addressed by Customer Service.

I hope this helps clear things up!

^ seriously jen... how is that considered Helpfull?

@Anonymous wrote: - Post 35 -

Hi @missjen831, happy to clear this up! At this time, there is no difference in procedures for a Return Request for items that were shipped to the buyer and those picked up by the buyer. As long as the transaction meets our eligibility requirements, the purchase is protected under the eBay Money Back Guarantee in the same way. The seller would be responsible for return shipping costs if the buyer needed to return the item for a reason we consider to be not as described. That being said, since the item is listed locally, the seller would likely be able to work out picking up the return themselves and have this documented clearly in the communication on eBay. If this is not an option, the item would need to be shipped back at the seller's cost.

Then: Reply 40 / 1. Transactions paid in cash would not qualify for the eBay Money Back Guarantee, so eBay would not be making a determination in a dispute (as a dispute would not be an option on eBay under these circumstances).

So,

41 / 1a. If local pickup only, and paid cash transaction.. this > If this is not an option, the item would need to be shipped back at the seller's cost. < DOES NOT apply?

Yes or No?

41 / 1b. Why is 'other electronic form of payment' a requirement for such a 'Local pickup only' listing?

To require said 'other form' creates the potential for seller liability for return shippng - a trap for inexperienced sellers [and widely unknown to many users unless deeply researched or from a bad experience].

Back to post 40 please, for answers.

40 / 2. The words "Local pickup only" as appear in listings, as appear in eBay text script, have a dictionary definition, in their singular and combined use connotation/denotation.

Does this term 'Local pickup only' feature in your eligibility requirements or eBay Money Back Guarantee terms and conditions, given it does infer a regional limitation as 'local'?

41 / 2a. Where is the limitation by use of the word 'Local' defined for determination of a paypal transaction return liability on a seller?

41 / 3. Hmmmm... the scenario is hypothetical and in defece of the member who seriously posted/questioned this - it is a possable scenario.

I wouldn't hazard a guess the probability of occuring, nor was I asking for such an assesment.

However, it is worthy of reply / discussion because that can seemingly happen if it's 'other form' than cash transaction.

Personally, I'd avoid this trap by use of an apt 'catch all' worded 'sales reciept' documentation.

I advise everyone do so.

So, back to the unanswers post 40,

40 / 3b. Does ebay offer advice and assist buyers and sellers trading 'Local pickup only' by publishing pdf. file copy for free download by members of an apt 'sales reciept' form that would be recognised by ebay determinations process or external civil Court jurisdictions?

If not, WHY not?

Hi @phono_0490xxxxxx, I am having difficulty understanding your post but I will attempt to address the concerns I believe you still have:

As I stated in my initial response, a transaction would need to meet our eligiblity requirements to qualify for the eBay Money Back Guarantee. If payment is in cash, the item is not eligible for the eBay Money Back Guarantee, so my previous response would not apply. Transactions that are not eligible for our protection program would be unable to ask us to step in for help in a resolution. When we talk about our expectations for return shipping costs, these would only apply to transactions eligible for the eBay Money Back Guarantee.

Electronic payment options must be available for the buyer so they can choose this and be eligible for protection through the eBay Money Back Guarantee.

Local pickup refers to items that the seller is offering to be picked up locally. I am unclear as to what additional clarification you are seeking regarding our definition of local pickup, but am happy to address this if you can rephrase your question.

Items picked up locally do not qualify for PayPal's protection program as outlined in their User Agreement.

You are not able to discourage buyers from selecting an electronic payment method, as this is considered a violation of eBay policy. The option must be made available for buyer's to choose this if they wish.

I am uncertain as to what your question is/the purpose of providing eBay with a sales receipt for a local pickup item. If the purchase is made with an electronic payment method, we have a record of the payment. If the buyer elects to pay with cash upon pickup as their payment method at checkout, then we would assume payment was made in cash. No further documentation would be needed by eBay from either party. If you would like to have documentation for your personal records, then you would be encouraged to research what would be appropriate for your business.

atikovi · ‎05-22-2018

@Anonymous wrote:
Electronic payment options must be available for the buyer so they can choose this and be eligible for protection through the eBay Money Back Guarantee.

And this is the crux of most sellers issue with local pickup only listings. Just like Ebaymotors has a whole different set of rules, perhaps Local Pickup Only listing should also. Namely, to allow cash on pickup as the sole payment method. If that would require eliminating the MBG, so be it, or alternatively, if that would require the buyer to return the item at their cost, so be it. Local pickup is such a small percentage of overall sales, that the effect would be inconsequential.