Help shipping a very large ladder

[mewchu2]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Little-Giant-18504-142-Compact-Cage-Ladder-4-6-IAA-Side-Wheels-Safety-Net/2...

The above link is the exact model ladder I have. I am looking to sell it, craigslist turned up only scammers so I would like to try ebay. If anyone has experience with shipping something this large I would really appreciate some input. It should weigh around 80 pounds. 

Thank you!

[missjen831]

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@atikovi wrote:

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@missjen831 wrote:

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If the buyer pays with PayPal, they are covered by the MBG and the seller is required to pay for return shipping. There is no local-pickup exclusion to that. 

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Can you show where this policy is written? That the seller is required to pay for return shipping when there was no shipping in the first place. The point of local pickup is to sell items too large or heavy to ship.

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It’s the MBG. There is no exclusion to rule that the seller pays for return shipping on SNADs. I am pretty sure the item has to be shipped to the seller, it’s the only way to prove the buyer returned it. And again the MBG doesn’t say local pickups are an exception to the rule. But Maybe i’m Wrong though...wouldn’t be the first time....

maybe Trinton can confirm how this would work. @Anonymous can you please chime in here. A local pickup SNAD, seller pays for return shipping right? If an item, let’s say it’s a ladder, is listed for local pickup only and the buyer pays with PayPal,

and they meet the seller in person, they take the ladder home and go to extend it and discover it is broken. The buyer files an SNAD. Does the seller pay for return shipping? If not, how does the buyer return the item and prove it to eBay? 

[phono_0490xxxxxx]

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@missjen831 wrote:

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@packratville wrote:

How could they do that if there is no shipping?

eBay: When creating your listing, simply select No shipping: Local pickup only from the dropdown menu in the Shipping details section. Make sure you've entered your ZIP code in the Item location because it'll be shown on your listing.

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That has nothing to do with return shipping. If the buyer pays with PayPal, they are covered by the MBG and the seller is required to pay for return shipping. There is no local-pickup exclusion to that. 

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I wouldn't accept paypal payment for a 'Local pickup only' trade under any circumstances.

NO WAY.

You know the scam by this scenario don't you, surely?

Buyer pays for local pickup via paypal funded by credit card > buyer does a charge back claiming item not received. 

Seller has no proof of shipping > scammer gets item and payment returned.

Local pickup is my referred method of trade actually.

More funds to win bidding.

Less anxiety having items shipped to me.

Inspection of item.

Real cash money exchanged with no fee to seller from the likes of paypal or ebay.

+ other benefits I won't mention here.

It would be ridiculous to even consider shipping a 80lb ladder anyway.

For a start the mass is over what many carriers will handle due to OH&S risk.

As robust as they may be constructed [or not], a ladder is used in elevated height risk applications so,  'dropping' isn't a great idea.

Hows the buyer [or seller for that matter] to know how it has been miss-treated in the shipping process.

eg. I couldn't get a 40kg PA speaker cabinet shipped to me unless I had a forklift to unload a pallet off a truck. Dropping a PA speaker cabinet will stuff it just like it would a ladder.

[missjen831]

No one encouraging PayPal for local pickups or that OP should ship the ladder. We are all aware of the scams. We are now discussing buyer protection and how it can impact the OP if they list for local pickup and the buyer pays with PayPal 🙂

[green-night]

 Help shipping a very large ladder

There are some threads you know the answer to just by the title.  

[green-night]

I would never ship a ladder. 

[atikovi]

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@missjen831 wrote:

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@atikovi wrote:

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@missjen831 wrote:

---

If the buyer pays with PayPal, they are covered by the MBG and the seller is required to pay for return shipping. There is no local-pickup exclusion to that. 

---

Can you show where this policy is written? That the seller is required to pay for return shipping when there was no shipping in the first place. The point of local pickup is to sell items too large or heavy to ship.

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It’s the MBG. There is no exclusion to rule that the seller pays for return shipping on SNADs. I am pretty sure the item has to be shipped to the seller, it’s the only way to prove the buyer returned it. And again the MBG doesn’t say local pickups are an exception to the rule.

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Look at the Paypal website. Says,

PayPal’s Purchase Protection Program

What's covered

When you buy something from a seller who accepts PayPal, you may be covered by PayPal’s Purchase Protection program.  When applicable, PayPal’s Purchase Protection program entitles you to reimbursement for the full purchase price of the item plus the original shipping costs you paid, if any.  

So if it's a local pickup, there were no shipping costs. And you so you wouldn't be entitled to any to return it.

Important: You may be required to return the item to the seller or other party specified by PayPal as part of the settlement of your claim.  PayPal’s Purchase Protection program does not entitle you to reimbursement for the return shipping costs that you may incur.

Again, no return shipping costs.

[missjen831]

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@atikovi wrote:

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@missjen831 wrote:

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@atikovi wrote:

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@missjen831 wrote:

---

If the buyer pays with PayPal, they are covered by the MBG and the seller is required to pay for return shipping. There is no local-pickup exclusion to that. 

---

Can you show where this policy is written? That the seller is required to pay for return shipping when there was no shipping in the first place. The point of local pickup is to sell items too large or heavy to ship.

---

It’s the MBG. There is no exclusion to rule that the seller pays for return shipping on SNADs. I am pretty sure the item has to be shipped to the seller, it’s the only way to prove the buyer returned it. And again the MBG doesn’t say local pickups are an exception to the rule.

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Look at the Paypal website. Says,

PayPal’s Purchase Protection Program

What's covered

When you buy something from a seller who accepts PayPal, you may be covered by PayPal’s Purchase Protection program.  When applicable, PayPal’s Purchase Protection program entitles you to reimbursement for the full purchase price of the item plus the original shipping costs you paid, if any.  

So if it's a local pickup, there were no shipping costs. And you so you wouldn't be entitled to any to return it.

Important: You may be required to return the item to the seller or other party specified by PayPal as part of the settlement of your claim.  PayPal’s Purchase Protection program does not entitle you to reimbursement for the return shipping costs that you may incur.

Again, no return shipping costs.

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Um....thats PAYPALs policy. We are discusing EBAYs policy. Paypal has always required the buyer to pay for return shipping. And the buyer would get a partial reimbursement from PP under the return shipping program if they use it. But again we are talking about EBAY policy.

[phono_0490xxxxxx]

There is no local-pickup exclusion to that. 

Still.... this inherent flaw that ebay [is it?] feel the need to publish a warning about.

Incredible isn't it.

So, whats to do folks? 

a) Call on ebay to finally 'exclude' paypal payment method/option and any direct or indirect MBG obligations from "local pickup only" listings,

b) be reduced to cynicism by saying it will never be remedied by ebay,

c) revisit the same issue when a member drops in [probably livid] after being scammed, facilitated by the flawed system,

d) do nothing other than sit back and watch.. or sell popcorn to the other spectators of this circus.

[green-night]

b) be reduced to cynicism by saying it will never be remedied by ebay,

It won't.  eBay IMO is not the best venue to list local pick up items for a myriad of reasons as this thread suggests.   And final value fees for local pick up?   No thanks. 

[missjen831]

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@phono_0490xxxxxx wrote:

There is no local-pickup exclusion to that. 

Still.... this inherent flaw that ebay [is it?] feel the need to publish a warning about.

Incredible isn't it.

So, whats to do folks? 

a) Call on ebay to finally 'exclude' paypal payment method/option and any direct or indirect MBG obligations from "local pickup only" listings,

b) be reduced to cynicism by saying it will never be remedied by ebay,

c) revisit the same issue when a member drops in [probably livid] after being scammed, facilitated by the flawed system,

d) do nothing other than sit back and watch.. or sell popcorn to the other spectators of this circus.

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Many of us on the board have advocated against ebays policy requiring the seller to take PP on local pickups. I hope you realize many here have advocated for change for years and nothing has changed to help sellers. We post here and tag the blues. We voice our concerns in the weekly chats. eBay has actually made buyer-friendly changes to the MBG despite the risks to the seller. Local pickups used to be excluded from the MBG period and a few years ago eBay quietly changed the policy and made them eligible for SNAD protection. And now despite the written policy saying otherwise, INRs covered if the item isn’t collected by the buyer at no fault of their own. So I mean....it’s not like we haven’t pushed for change. They make changes alright,  but not in the best interest of sellers. 

[atikovi]

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@missjen831 wrote:

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Um....thats PAYPALs policy. We are discusing EBAYs policy. Paypal has always required the buyer to pay for return shipping. And the buyer would get a partial reimbursement from PP under the return shipping program if they use it. But again we are talking about EBAY policy.

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I still don't see where Ebay requires a seller to pay for return shipping for an item that wasn't shipped in the first place. That's like buying refrigerator from Best Buy and picking it up yourself, then a week later it breaks down and expecting them to come pick it up.

[phono_0490xxxxxx]

 ^^ That's like buying refrigerator from Best Buy and picking it up yourself, then a week later it breaks down and expecting them to come pick it up.

We have Consumer Protection Legislation in Australia where a retailer of new goods can be held responsible for picking up a defective item, notwithstanding who delivered the item. 

It's a matter of whats 'reasonable'.

Likewise, refunds and returns by the retailer.

Some try to suggest it's a manufacturers responsibility, which is false. 

Anyway...

[missjen831]

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@phono_0490xxxxxx wrote:

 ^^ That's like buying refrigerator from Best Buy and picking it up yourself, then a week later it breaks down and expecting them to come pick it up.

We have Consumer Protection Legislation in Australia where a retailer of new goods can be held responsible for picking up a defective item, notwithstanding who delivered the item. 

It's a matter of whats 'reasonable'.

Likewise, refunds and returns by the retailer.

Some try to suggest it's a manufacturers responsibility, which is false. 

Anyway...

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The MBG on eBay.com had/has the same policy on local pickups—seller is responsible for collecting the item back, it specifically address the costs and said they were the sellers responsibility. The wording was removed when they condensed the written MBG policy to make the site “mobile friendly”—they have actually condensed a lot of the help pages in that way. Hopefully Trinton will clarify for us what the policy is today. As far as I am Aware, it still stands.

[phono_0490xxxxxx]

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@green-night wrote:

b) be reduced to cynicism by saying it will never be remedied by ebay,

It won't.  eBay IMO is not the best venue to list local pick up items for a myriad of reasons as this thread suggests.   And final value fees for local pick up?   No thanks. 

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3 issues there.

Skepticism in everything is healthy, [especially re. matters of 'faith'] but it can be more difficult than cynicism... after all, to be cynical is adopting a position of defeat.

Cynicism achives NOTHING.

The afflicted should fade back because they can adverly affect those who can and do seek change. 

[missjen831]

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@atikovi wrote:

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@missjen831 wrote:

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Um....thats PAYPALs policy. We are discusing EBAYs policy. Paypal has always required the buyer to pay for return shipping. And the buyer would get a partial reimbursement from PP under the return shipping program if they use it. But again we are talking about EBAY policy.

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I still don't see where Ebay requires a seller to pay for return shipping for an item that wasn't shipped in the first place. That's like buying refrigerator from Best Buy and picking it up yourself, then a week later it breaks down and expecting them to come pick it up.

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Well again the MBG says local pickups are covered and that an item is not as described, the cost of return shipping is the sellers responsibility. There is nothing that says local pickups are excluded from this requirement and that the policy only applies to shipped items. The language has been removed from the MBG but before they condensed it to the “mobile friendly” version, it did state that on local pickups, the cost of retrieving the item was the sellers responsibility.