I am a small-time buyer/seller who has used eBay off and on since 1999. I sell from my home out of my closet as a way to clean house. Lately I've been selling collections from my childhood to help make ends meet while I'm out of work. Just recently I got hit with my first scam, and I am increasingly disconcerted with eBay's handling of the matter. I want know what everyone else thinks and get advice on how to proceed.
The situation began when I put some trading cards (a lot mixed cards and sets) up for auction with a starting bid of $45 and no option for offers. There were one or two watchers, but low views and no bids. However, one user emailed me at least once with an informal offer $10 below my starting bid price, though these emails along with several other older emails from this time seem to have disappeared from my inbox. (Does eBay auto-delete emails after a certain amount of time??) Anyway, I declined the offer and noted the name in case he won the bidding later after I lowered the starting price. We'll call him User1.
After eBay auto-relisted twice, the starting bid came down to $35. Unfortunately, I failed to notice that it automatically turned on the option for offers against my will. Near the end of the auction, User1 reached out through email to make an offer $10 below my offer price once again. Frustrated with his tendency to keep pushing the price lower, I relisted the item again, this time setting the starting bid to $25, his new asking price. I also increased the shipping cost by $5 because I had recently lost money on shipping on a recent sale and realized that the flat rate shipping box I needed for the item would run me $5 over what I was asking for. (Again, I'm a casual user, not a veteran seller. I normally shipping items through USPS once every ten years or so.)
I'll let the emails tell the story from here, interspersing my comments where needed.
User1 (Nov-24-20 12:01) :
so you change it to 25 but then you up the shipping $5 extra for no reason ....so you just plan on over charging in the shipping to try to make up for not getting the price you want......good to know...good luck ever buying this cause im out with snake moves like that
Me (Nov-24-20 12:24) :
Actually, I keep losing money on shipping cost because I don't have custom packaging like the stores and other big sellers. When I first posted a lot of my items, I guessed at the shipping cost based on what others were offering. Gradually I've been adjusting the shipping costs as I get more and more experience with similar items at the post office. The more I lower prices, the less willing I am to help pay for shipping.
It doesn't bother me that you're not going to bid. Every time I lower the starting price to what you informally bid, you informally bid again $10 lower than the last time. I even went against my "no offer" policy and opened it up to offers $5 below your initial offer to help you out, but instead you complained about not being able to go even lower. Talk about snakes…
I have no problem tossing this item back in my closet for storage for a few more years. I've sold enough to make room at my new place.
User1 (Nov-24-20 12:38) :
flat rate padded mailer $9 shipping...you put them in cases put them in the bubble wrap envelope and you are done...if you are losing money you are a fool but i can already see that to be true so later fool....as for the rest of your page long story...good fiction you should be a writer
NOTE: User1 wanted me to put over a hundred trading cards in hard plastic cases in a simple padded envelop. They were stored in a box that was 15"x4"x3". Regardless, his tone was abusive and inappropriate. At this point I wrote him off thinking I'd never hear from him again. Then just a few hours later I receive this from a much less senior account, which we'll call User2. Note the similarities in writing style.
User2 (Nov-24-20 16:12) :
hey i saw your item here and was interested in it but the shipping is really high and im wondering if you have a cheaper shipping that you can offer.....20 for this amount of cards is just too much this should be able to be shipped for like $10 easy in a priority box....any help would be appreciated.
NOTE: At the time, I did not notice the similarity in writing style. However, I did notice the locations of both User1 and User2. Both came from Florida, and when I looked up cities, both lived very close to Orlando, within minutes of each other. I suspected these people knew each other, and I naively assumed that User1 had ranted to his girlfriend (since User2's username suggests a girl's account) and she decided to be the bigger man and buy the cards for him through mature negotiation. The point is that I gave both users the benefit of the doubt. Here was my reply:
Me (Nov-24-20 16:40) :
I was originally planning to package the cards in a protective card box measuring 15" x 4" x 3", which would have required a large box, priced at ~$21. Given that you're the second person to inquire about the shipping costs, I've looked for other options and found smaller protective card box measuring 7.5" x 4.5" x 3.25". It does not hold all of the cards, but the hard plastic case and the sealed card can sit outside of it inside the Priority box. This changes the dimensions to something that can fit in a medium flat rate box priced at ~$15. (eBay gives a small postage discount to sellers, though it's washed out by sales tax. On top of that, I sometimes have to buy bubble wrap, which I've been doing as a courtesy up until recently... but with hour-long lines at the post office and all the stress, I've started to round up.)
For rates on the USPS Priority flat rate boxes, see: (link to USPS Priority mail shipping rates)
If you're fine with a medium sized box, I can eat the potential extra dollar or two expense I might incur one last time. I'd like to get it out the door before the holiday mess at the post office, so I could set an offer price equal to the starting bid price and change shipping to $15 flat. If you offer and pay promptly, I can ship it out tomorrow.
User2 (Nov-24-20 17:25) :
really you dont need bubble wrap if they are in cases. i have got a bunch of packages that they were wrapped in newspaper or like grocery store shopping bags, and they were all protected and fine, and im sure the sellers got that for free, just a thought in trying to help....dont waste all your money on the stuff that isn't necessary..oh and the customers $ too. if you are adding all that in. $15 is better than 20 so it will have to do but you should really look into different shipping options for the priority there are ones that it will cost way less than said 15 all that being said, no arguing needed im sold go ahead and change it and ill buy it for the 35
Me (Nov-24-20 17:38) :
Shipping has been adjusted. I could do First Class for less, but the problem is finding a sturdy enough box for shipping. The only boxes for sale at my post office are for Priority.
Also, I don't have newspaper, and after moving, I don't have many plastic bags to work with. Fortunately my post office keeps some recycled packaging material for free use, so as long as that supply isn't used up, I'm fine.
NOTE: At this point, we agreed upon the price and the transaction was completed:
Me (Nov-24-20 17:43) :
Thank for the purchase! I will get the cards in the mail for you first thing tomorrow.
NOTE: When printing out the invoice and the shipping label I purchased through eBay, I noticed that User2's mailing address was different from what was claimed in the emails. Her city now perfectly matched User1's city location. Again, I continued to assume that User1's girlfriend had bought him the cards and was having them shipped to his address. I still had not noticed the similarities in writing style. The package was shipped promptly, and according to the tracking information, it was received on 30 Nov. Four days later I received this email:
User2 (Dec-04-20 06:19) :
so did you miss something in my package and still need to send it?
your listings says
"[quote from listing about specific cards]"
so there should be 2[specific item] and i didn't get ANY #1'S AT ALL for [this type of item]....the only ones that i got are [other cards listed]
im guessing you missed it in the shipping and have it sitting around there somewhere...anyway email me back and let me know whats going on......
NOTE: I suspected something fishy, so again I tried to be professional and gave the benefit of the doubt. I replied promptly asking for more details and photos.
Me (Dec-04-20 08:06) :
When I wrote up the listing, I laid out all the cards and inventoried them based on the information I could find online or what the cards said. After that I bundled them all back up, set them aside, and didn't touch them again until I was asked to package them differently to reduce shipping costs. At your request, I've checked where the cards were sitting and the original box and found nothing.
Could you please take a picture of the [specific items] you received and send it to me to refresh my memory? My guess is that I misidentified something and that you might have two of some other card numbered #1.
NOTE: I received no reply. Two days later, I received negative feedback and a return request.
User2 (Dec-06-20 06:33) :
no communication at all huh? ok i guess ill have to open a case and let ebay handle it....going to leave out inserts then its not worth the 35 anymore...cant say i didn't try to email you first
At this point, I requested a call from eBay support and reported the user to them over the phone. It was the rep who pointed out that it was obvious that the emails by User1 and User2 seemed to have been written by the same person. They noted my case and reported the user for me, telling me that I would hear by from the back office by 11 December. Meanwhile User1/User2 submitted a return request, claiming that the two missing cards are worth $10 each when any search of eBay selling history shows that they typically sell for $1 to $2.50 each. (Coincidentally, User1 tries to sell these exact same cards, and always charges on the highest end of the price range: $5+.)
I suspect the aim of the scheme was to snatch the cards he wanted from the lot, leave me negative feedback from his earlier tantrum, and stick me with the bill for returning the items (minus the cards he wanted in the first place). I wouldn't be surprised if he even tries to sell the cards he stole later on his User1 account. (>.<)
I have called support several times since, and each time I have been instructed to keep going through with the return process by replying to the customer. I have done so, but I do not have an email history of my replies to share. I have told my story to multiple reps, and each has looked at the emails and seen the similarities and abusive language for themselves and commented on it. Yet I never heard back from the back office, and both the return and negative feedback have stuck. I called again near the end of the day to inquire about my original report, and I was simply told to report them again. Maybe they are still investigating, but the impression I got is that they are not.
I feel as if the eBay back office is leaving me to the mercy of their automated system, effectively punishing me for my good faith efforts and professionalism. User1 is a veteran user with a dedicated store, thousands of positive feedback (100% positive), and I worry that they're going to let him get away with this.
In fairness, I will admit to the following rookie mistakes:
1) I use my account for both buying and selling. Today I learned on the forums that this is a bad idea. Clearly User1 knows how to protect his account using this technique. It's frustrating because I just learned that sellers cannot leave negative feedback for buyers, so I can't even warn other potential sellers of his scam on his buyer account.
2) I did not take pictures of every single card in the lot. But in my defense, according to eBay's policy, a buyer to claim any single common card from a set of 100's is missing and file a claim. No one who sells sets of hundreds of cards can reasonably take pictures of every single one.
My naivety doesn't invalidate eBay's buyer policy, nor should User1's perfect status protect when he violates that policy by using multiple account maliciously. I've done everything that I can do, and I will continue to call eBay support regularly until it is resolved. In the meantime, I would like some advice from the community. Where can I go from here? Am I simply being too impatient with the investigation?
