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Free Returns

I had a conversation with an eBay rep yesterday who called me to tell me (once again) about the free returns program, and how this wonderful program can boost sales by 15 percent, according to some data that was most likely manipulated to get people to believe that sales = profits.

I feel really bad because by the end of the conversation, she was trembling, perhaps even in tears, and that was certainly not my intention. The poor girl was just doing the job she was hired to do, reading a script that she was told to read, and to try to convince Top Rated Sellers that it's okay to be extorted by eBay. I hope she did not take my feedback about eBay personally, but I really think it was her first day. I explained to her that this move by eBay is opening a whole new channel for thieves. Now they can search by "free returns" so they can target sellers who offer this program. Thieves know they can get items for free or for at least 50% off. There is no way a seller can make a profit with this strategy. There is no honor among thieves, and if eBay truly believes members are always honest, they are sadly optimistic. As it is now, most returns are FALSE SNAD cases (in other words, the buyer LIES to avoid shipping and restocking fees), so let's just make it easier for them by removing the step where they have to lie to return something for free (yep, that will make them honest!). The rep excitedly tells me that if the item is returned in any other condition than we sent it, we are allowed to keep 50% of the sale and refund only 50% instead of having to refund the full transaction. After four reports of buyers misuing the free returns system, eBay will give them warning. So they get to rip off at least FOUR sellers before eBay shuts them down.  (Yep, again that's keeping them honest!)

I reiterated to the rep that eBay is cheating us out of our TRS benefits by forcing us to take losses on our sales. If we do not conform to this ridiculously unprofitable policy, we do not get our benefits on those listings. So, If I sell an item for $1000, the buyer requests a return and sends back a box of rocks, I get to keep 50% of the sale IF I CAN PROVE that I sent out the correct item. I do not get a discount on my final value fees because it's only a partial refund, but hey, at least eBay put our TRS badge on that item.

So to put this in perspective:

I have a unit that I paid 700 for (because I am adistributor).

I sell the unit for $1000. I pay shipping $25. Buyer requests return, I pay another 25 plus call tagf fee of 16, so it costs 41 to bring it back. I receive a box of rocks, the buyer keeps the unit, and I get to keep half of the refund because the buyer didn't send back the same unit.  Here's what it looks like:

1000-100 (fvf)=900

900-25 (shipping)=875

875-700(cost of unit)=175

At this point I made a profit of 175 (sounds good, right?)

Oh but wait. The buyer requests a return (no reason is needed).

175 (what I initially made) - 41 (return shipping and call tag)=134

Buyer ships back box of rocks instead of a unit that I can re-sell.

134-500(partial refund for scam buyer)= -366

 

This transaction would cost ME $366 to receive something back other than what i sold.. Not sure how eBay expects people to sell here if we are not profitting or at least breaking even. 

 

I suppose the rep who called me NEVER SOLD A THING ON eBay! Because not one person who ever has, would agree that this is a "good" program for sellers. I think she realized that after I schooled her.

I still feel really bad though, because she honestly thought she was promoting a good program. 

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203 REPLIES 203

Re: Free Returns

And absolutely not count them against us when we do...... 

Message 181 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

Follow-up on a recent "free return" ...
A guy bought a part that didn't fit because he didn't read my item description or check his engine before buying. I accepted the return and planned on refunding for the part only, no shipping refund. However, when I got the part back it was damaged, dirty and missing several items! The kit was useless however since the only option I had was to give him 50%... that's what I did. The guy had the gual to complain and eBay gave him the other 50%! Now I have a part that's ruined and can't be sold and I lost the shipping cost both ways! I called eBay and they agreed with me and said my request to have the 50% had to be approved and it would take a few days. That's over a week ago! Now I'm on hold...estimated wait time is 30 to 53 minutes! OMG! Looks like eBay will never change!

Joshua Trenge
Message 182 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

I feel your pain.  Been there, done that, bought the tee shirt.  Keep up the good fight.

 

Message 183 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

I have good news... after a few phone calls and extended wait on hold, eBay gave back my money. Unfortunately this seller was also given his money back after destroying my part. When seller's mistakes don't cost them anything, they keep on making them! ...or simply don't care.
Joshua Trenge
Message 184 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

Glad it worked out for you.  That's encouraging.  I can't imagine this new policy is going well for Ebay.  I'm going to start listing again and see how it goes.  Also testing Etsy.  

Message 185 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

I use ETSY for the items that meet their standards... I have sold a few things but they can't compete with eBay as far as buyers and sales. It's easy to list on ETSY and the site works well in all aspects ...however, I just don't have many sales... Overall, I'm not impressed with ETSY... 😞
Joshua Trenge
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Re: Free Returns

TRS status is just a carrot on a stick for ebay.  I'm done chasing the carrot. I don't care if I lose TRS.

Frankly I think it's more cost effective to just pay the extra 10% and forget the constant waste of man hours on all the seller 'updates'.

Every time I conform to their latest nonsense, they come up with a new "great news! We're making you do something else you'll hate!" and then threaten to take away our TRS status if we don't do it.

TRS is just a gimmick to get you to do whatever they decide is best (for THEM not us).

Maybe I should leave ebay and just buy stock in the company since their stockholders are the only people that matter to them.

Message 187 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

If it's any consolation their stock holders have had some tough sledding recently.  Closed today at 33.66 compared to 35.62 Aug. 7 2017.  High during the 1 year period was 44.30 on Febuary 2nd 2018.  Went from 37.95 on July 18th to closing today at 33.66.

 

When I first starting selling on Ebay back in 2000 (different user name, took a long leave of absence and came back recently) they expresed a core belief "We believe that people are basically good".  I'm not sure if that is still part of their internal culture.  Haven't seen it around since I started again.  

 

I share your disapointment with the selling environment and have become cynical about their commitments to sellers.  Unfortunate because at one time I had considerable admiration for the company.

Message 188 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

How about a new core belief "Everyone treated fairly" or "Everyone responsible for their own mistakes" LOL... in a pigs eye!
Joshua Trenge
Message 189 of 204
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Re: Free Returns


@partsgalore1 wrote:
How about a new core belief "Everyone treated fairly" or "Everyone responsible for their own mistakes" LOL... in a pigs eye!

That would be refreshing indeed!  

 

Personal experience:  My wife and I did estate sales for over 20 years.  When we started my wife was nervous about buyer behavior (she had heard all kinds of negative stories about that).  I believed that if we set rules and made them clear our buyers would respect them.  I told her that those who didn't respect our business method would either not come or we could ban them.  This worked out very well and the few customers we may have lost were more than offset by those who appreciated the order and consistency our approach brought.  We created a positive environment and welcomed those who shared our vision of fair commerce.  At the peak of our activity we were doing at least one sale per week, often multiples, and had a large staff.  There is no reason a similiar culture can't be built on an ecommerce site.  It's just a question of setting fair procedures, communicating them clearly to all parties and ensuring that all parties follow them.  

 

 

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Re: Free Returns

Absolutely spot on! I make my share of mistakes and freely pay for them. I never let a customer loose "one thin dime" because of anything I did or didn't do properly. On the other hand, when a customer decides to order a part with out reading my description or comparing to their old part... they must pay for returning it and I refuse to refund any shipping cost.... especially now that we can't charge a restocking fee. Any buyer who fights me on this or sics daddy eBay on me is instantly blocked forever. I simply have no place in my life or livelihood for people who think I should pay for their mistakes. My 100% positive feedback is proof that the great majority of people on eBay are good and honest. That small percentage who lie and steal from others needs to be sent away (buyers & seller)... eBay needs to stop coddling them. As your rules and their results prove, simple individual accountability rules will create an atmosphere of fairness that will strengthen eBay and eliminate so much bad blood.
Joshua Trenge
Message 191 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

Some members think the feedback system is useless any more because we cannot leave negs for bad buyers. But it's not the feedback received that is most informational. It is the feedback left for others that is more telling. I have used this buyer-check method to weed out some bad ones before they can even do a transaction. I see some buyers leaving a trail of abusive behavior, and they're still allowed to use eBay. Feedback is one of our only tools left to eliminate, or at least deter bad transactions.
Thanks for your input partsgalore! I'm glad eBay reimbursed your for the buyer who appealed your refund. Unfortunately, we have to fight for what's right because eBay certainly does't care all that much. We do manage to win some!
We sellers have to stick together with a united front! Hopefully we can all afford to remain until ebay awakens from this nightmare.
Message 192 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

How do you use the feedback to weed out bad buyers? 

 


@plumbingspecials wrote:
Some members think the feedback system is useless any more because we cannot leave negs for bad buyers. But it's not the feedback received that is most informational. It is the feedback left for others that is more telling. I have used this buyer-check method to weed out some bad ones before they can even do a transaction. I see some buyers leaving a trail of abusive behavior, and they're still allowed to use eBay. Feedback is one of our only tools left to eliminate, or at least deter bad transactions.
Thanks for your input partsgalore! I'm glad eBay reimbursed your for the buyer who appealed your refund. Unfortunately, we have to fight for what's right because eBay certainly does't care all that much. We do manage to win some!
We sellers have to stick together with a united front! Hopefully we can all afford to remain until ebay awakens from this nightmare.

 

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Re: Free Returns

Total agreement...
I have used the feedback left for others to look into some buyers. I tossed around the idea of checking every sale but my bad buyers are so few that I have not taken that step... yet. Yes... sellers have to stick together... we need to have each others backs (no one else does). Best Wishes to you....
Joshua Trenge
Message 194 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

As soon as signed up for a free returns sales dropped drastically , returns soared, opted out. When you receive back a different item of no item at all, you call them for help and they go “ don’t you worry about this, you’re a top rated seller we will help you” , they escalate it and boom, case closed in buyers favor, defect! You sold 4-5 items to the same buyer at the same time, you combine them and ship in one package using one label, buyer requests return for not liking them, requests are approved automatically, eBay provides return labels for each request, thats 4-5 return labels, now do the math! If anyone thinks that eBay cares for the sellers they’re deeply mistaken.

 

Message 195 of 204
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