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Free Returns

I had a conversation with an eBay rep yesterday who called me to tell me (once again) about the free returns program, and how this wonderful program can boost sales by 15 percent, according to some data that was most likely manipulated to get people to believe that sales = profits.

I feel really bad because by the end of the conversation, she was trembling, perhaps even in tears, and that was certainly not my intention. The poor girl was just doing the job she was hired to do, reading a script that she was told to read, and to try to convince Top Rated Sellers that it's okay to be extorted by eBay. I hope she did not take my feedback about eBay personally, but I really think it was her first day. I explained to her that this move by eBay is opening a whole new channel for thieves. Now they can search by "free returns" so they can target sellers who offer this program. Thieves know they can get items for free or for at least 50% off. There is no way a seller can make a profit with this strategy. There is no honor among thieves, and if eBay truly believes members are always honest, they are sadly optimistic. As it is now, most returns are FALSE SNAD cases (in other words, the buyer LIES to avoid shipping and restocking fees), so let's just make it easier for them by removing the step where they have to lie to return something for free (yep, that will make them honest!). The rep excitedly tells me that if the item is returned in any other condition than we sent it, we are allowed to keep 50% of the sale and refund only 50% instead of having to refund the full transaction. After four reports of buyers misuing the free returns system, eBay will give them warning. So they get to rip off at least FOUR sellers before eBay shuts them down.  (Yep, again that's keeping them honest!)

I reiterated to the rep that eBay is cheating us out of our TRS benefits by forcing us to take losses on our sales. If we do not conform to this ridiculously unprofitable policy, we do not get our benefits on those listings. So, If I sell an item for $1000, the buyer requests a return and sends back a box of rocks, I get to keep 50% of the sale IF I CAN PROVE that I sent out the correct item. I do not get a discount on my final value fees because it's only a partial refund, but hey, at least eBay put our TRS badge on that item.

So to put this in perspective:

I have a unit that I paid 700 for (because I am adistributor).

I sell the unit for $1000. I pay shipping $25. Buyer requests return, I pay another 25 plus call tagf fee of 16, so it costs 41 to bring it back. I receive a box of rocks, the buyer keeps the unit, and I get to keep half of the refund because the buyer didn't send back the same unit.  Here's what it looks like:

1000-100 (fvf)=900

900-25 (shipping)=875

875-700(cost of unit)=175

At this point I made a profit of 175 (sounds good, right?)

Oh but wait. The buyer requests a return (no reason is needed).

175 (what I initially made) - 41 (return shipping and call tag)=134

Buyer ships back box of rocks instead of a unit that I can re-sell.

134-500(partial refund for scam buyer)= -366

 

This transaction would cost ME $366 to receive something back other than what i sold.. Not sure how eBay expects people to sell here if we are not profitting or at least breaking even. 

 

I suppose the rep who called me NEVER SOLD A THING ON eBay! Because not one person who ever has, would agree that this is a "good" program for sellers. I think she realized that after I schooled her.

I still feel really bad though, because she honestly thought she was promoting a good program. 

Message 1 of 204
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203 REPLIES 203

Re: Free Returns

Exactly  " eBay's lack of understanding that they are a platform ....NOT a retail store or a seller." 

Message 106 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

SO!  We are all mad and have logical reasons to not comply.  I want to know if we are just whining alone in a closet or does anyone from ebay listen?  I have NEVER protested ANYTHING they chose before. 

 

This is absolutely RIDICULOUS and makes no sense.  Another message is titled "Why is ebay throwing TRS+ under the bus?"  That really says it all.

Message 107 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

Just in case Ebay missed the news a couple weeks ago, Amazon is now blocking buyers with 6 or more returns in a year.

Message 108 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

I have had about 3 to 4 request for returns a year, Most are for something received broken. I tell them do not return it I will just issue a refund, but before I can do that I file a insurance claim. If it is something Not as described I will still issue just a refund, no return necessary. About 1 time every year someone wants to make a return because they changed their mind, but because I have buyer pay return shipping I have only had 2 item returned in the last 7 years. With the new policy having to pay the return shipping would cut out my discount on the year by about 2 months or more if it goes up. The current (before June) return policy worked just fine.

Message 109 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

Thanks for a much needed laugh! 

 

Message 110 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

I'm betting on the closet alternative. 

Message 111 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

Ok... I just had my first free return... as soon as it arrives I'll see how eBay allows for up to 50% reduction in refund. The buyer clearly bought the wrong part and now won't responde when asked what model engine he has. If I have to pay shipping both ways...it'll be the end of free returns for me... at least on medium weight items.

Joshua Trenge
Message 112 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

why read the description, or maybe why not send the old part it's free shipping worse thing that can happen is i don't get free money.
Message 113 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

it is triggered by conversion rate
Message 114 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

You are so right, you've got it down, I'm going back to 14 day returns, the new policy is pure garbage for the sellers..   Like you, I offer free shipping, my items sell between $ 11.99 and $ 14.99 the free shipping is quite a chunk as it is, there's no way I'm paying for return shipping. The top rated seal is not worth it if your not making any money.

Message 115 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

Update: I received my first free return back and it wasn't in it's original box or packaging, additionally, it was returned because it "didn't fit" which was due to the buyer's purchase of the wrong item. I asked the buyer to provide his engine model # and a picture of his engine...he never responded. For these reasons I deducted the shipping costs and since the amount due was nearly 50% of the total cost, I choose a 50% refund (which is easy to to). I explained all this to justify my decision and was then automatically sent to a page that allowed me to report the buyer, which I did. I was truthful but I'm not really sure the buyer did anything wrong since I don't know what options he had when choosing the reason for return? All I saw on my end was "item did not fit" which was truthful... however, the reason it didn't fit is critical. Normally when a buyer lies, I block them, in this case, there is no evidence the buyer lied, although his refusal to provide his engine # or a picture of his engine seems to suggest he knew he made a mistake and did not want to admit it. I spelled this out in my complaint. Now.... the buyer has a few weeks to ask eBay to step in, if he's an honest guy, he'll just let it go, if he complains, we'll see how eBay handles in. I'll post a follow up later...
Joshua Trenge
Message 116 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

@partsgalore1


@partsgalore1 wrote:
Update: I received my first free return back and it wasn't in it's original box or packaging, additionally, it was returned because it "didn't fit" which was due to the buyer's purchase of the wrong item. I asked the buyer to provide his engine model # and a picture of his engine...he never responded. For these reasons I deducted the shipping costs and since the amount due was nearly 50% of the total cost, I choose a 50% refund (which is easy to to). I explained all this to justify my decision and was then automatically sent to a page that allowed me to report the buyer, which I did. I was truthful but I'm not really sure the buyer did anything wrong since I don't know what options he had when choosing the reason for return? All I saw on my end was "item did not fit" which was truthful... however, the reason it didn't fit is critical. Normally when a buyer lies, I block them, in this case, there is no evidence the buyer lied, although his refusal to provide his engine # or a picture of his engine seems to suggest he knew he made a mistake and did not want to admit it. I spelled this out in my complaint. Now.... the buyer has a few weeks to ask eBay to step in, if he's an honest guy, he'll just let it go, if he complains, we'll see how eBay handles in. I'll post a follow up later...

This is great info and thanks for posting.  The other thing I am wondering is can the Buyer leave Feedback with a return, regardless of how much the Seller cnooses to give back?  If eBay still allows FB to be left then I would be disappointed because that tells me they still want FB to be Buyer leverage against a Seller ... the sad truth.

Regards,
Mr. Lincoln - Community Mentor
Message 117 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

If your a small seller on ebay this will not effect you in anyway, but for those of use who already pay Ebay an ungodly amount of money each month we feel they should have done some more homework on the issue before they forced it on us. Just dig a little deeper, just maybe they should ask the opinions of their top sellers before making a move like this....
Message 118 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

We ran "Free Returns" long before eBay's brightest bulbs lit up, quite a few years before... The option to offer free returns has existed for quite some time, not sure exactly how long but ever since I can recall and one day we decided to try this because much like ebay we thought it might boost sales.

 

We did this for 1-2 years, again it has been some time ago but we ran "Free returns" for quite a bit of time, whether a year or two, it was long enough by my standards to study the results.

 

What we found was not at all consistent with what ebay is advertising now.

We did not really see an increase in sales, if we did it was so minimal that it was not noticeable.

We also saw very little increase in the overall number of returns, again it was minimal to not noticeable.

 

What we did find is more buyers lied about the reason for the return which I found REALLY strange since it was free anyhow. I could not begin to imagine why buyers would lie about the return reason when it is free regardless but that is what we found consistently, I have to guess "free returns" throws buyers off?  

It is frustrating, when a buyer returns an item as "SNAD/defective," more so because we'd like to just take the buyer's word for it... If a buyer tells us the truth then we know right away whether we can re-sell the item or we should throw it away.  We did throw several of the early returns straight in the garbage but after so many buyers claimed defective/snad items we thought we had better start testing... And lo and behold, we found most of the items being returned as "defective/SNAD" did in fact work / were not SNAD at all.

 

Needless to say we discountinued our free returns program, and have been much happier since.

 

You can imagine our chagrin when we saw ebay wisening up to this "free returns" idea.

The sad part is that ebay is firm on this idea without any proof, they have no way of "testing" their own concept yet they want to shove this one down the seller's throats.

 

I can only hope they do not make these returns ma...  

Perhaps I better not elaborate.

Message 119 of 204
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Re: Free Returns

Going to "buyer pays return shipping" does not work. All the buyer has to say is that the item 

"does not match description or photos".  I had one that the buyer stated that the item was not as large as they thought even with the dimensions clearly in my listing. When I disputed it, Ebay deducted the return shipping, selling price and original shipping from my Paypal account.  They reviewed my 

dispute and I received an answer back in less than 5 Minutes. This being done at 2:00 AM PST.

Can you say "automated respnse". Their attitude is grin and take it or get out.

Message 120 of 204
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