Estimated delivery date wrong, unhappy buyer

[rebby-clothes]

I sold a toddler dress on 10/24 (last Wednesday). All my items have a handling time of two business days, and I rarely ship earlier unless buyer requests or I have a slow day. So the item was due to ship 10/26, Friday. The morning of the 28th, I wake up to an unhappy email from the buyer, who wanted to know why it hadn't shipped yet, because she needed it before Halloween to use for her child's costume. It was just a regular dress, and this was the first message from the buyer, so I never would have assumed it was needed for Halloween. She also sent a screenshot showing an estimated deliver date of 10/29, which would have been 2 days from shipping if Saturday counts, 1 if not. The shipping method was free first class shipping. I checked USPS.com and entered same info and got estimated delivery 10/31. So I sent the buyer another message asking if they preferred I refund so they could buy locally or if they wanted to pay for express, which would have cost more than the actual item, since USPS website said it would be unlikely to arrive until the 31st. After five days, buyer didn't respond to any messages so I finally just cancelled and refunded. At that point, the buyer finally responded, blamed me for her kid not having a costume, and said I should have been able to send it in time and eBay's date couldn't be wrong. Anyone had this happen before, where ebay's estimate vs USPS estimate were different? It stinks because there is no way the seller can edit that info, and it is pretty frustrating if it is telling my buyers they will get First Class packages in 1 or 2 business days.

[goldguy22k]

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@missjen831 wrote:

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@divwido wrote:

If a US buyer ordered on 10/24, there should be every expectation for it to be delivered within seven days.   Two days handling is two days too many unless it was clearly (and repeatedly) stated.

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@divwido EBAY has chosen to stop showing the sellers handling time on the listing so again let’s blame eBay not the seller. She met her stated handling time. eBay chose not to display that info and eBay chose to give the buyer a 2 business day delivery estimate. Not the seller. eBay shouldn’t be giving that estimate when the sellers handling time is 2 days and they ship first class.

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That is not entirely true.  Sigh! Handling time seems to appear on some listing but not others.  I had this discussion last week and had to eat some crow because, indeed handling time was showing up on some listings I checked.

In fact, I bought something in the morning of 28Oct.  The listing showed that the seller shipped the same business day.  On 30Oct the seller sent me a message that they were preparing to ship the item and as of today 1Nov (wee hours) there is no tracking info.  So, yes, the handling time DOES appear on some listings, though not sure what is the rule or if it is random.

[goldguy22k]

fwiw, one of the comments that the CEO made on the CC yesterday was that they had growing confidence in their shipping time estimates and would be expanding the "guaranteed delivery" program, even adding GD to some listings that were not enrolled in the program.

Now let's see  if that sets a few heads a spinning?  LOL 

[missjen831]

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@rebby-clothes wrote:

I guess I am confused what exactly you think I should add to my listings? I select an accurate handling time, I ship in time based on what I select when I list the items. What am I supposed to say? "The handling time is really the handling time! I ship when I say I will ship, I don't ship earlier than I say I will ship, unless you ask, then I can ship next day but never same day. But otherwise, it means what it says!" That seems.. odd.  

This is what the buyer sent me. I verified that I didn't make a mistake and the handling time was set to 2 days and the shipping was First Class. I also made sure that the buyer wasn't showing me a different order, because when I looked at the order to print a label it said the buyer expected to receive it by Oct 29. So basically ebay expected it to arrive in 2 days, because that's what's left after 2 day handling time plus there was a Sunday in there. WTH? I didn't take a screenshot of the later USPS website estimate and can't do that now since I can't select an old shipping date, wish I had taken one.

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I’m not sure why you are getting so much flack over whether or not your listings state the handling time. Even if they do, you would still be dealing with any unhappy buyer who is only looking at the delivery date eBay “promised” them. (Note that promised in in quotations and that is making light of the many buyers think the delivery estimate is a promise). 

[myangelandmyprincess]

Handling time still shows up on the app for me 

[johnrj1226]

With your screen shot and taking into account  your 2 day handling time  your  order should have been in the possession of the USPS on Friday  10/26 and there is a very good chance that and acceptance scan and movement scan(s) would  have been visible to the buyer by Oct. 28 the day  they contacted you.   They are assuming  you had not shipped the item  as you later fully refunded  the buyer.

USPS states FCP service has an estimated delivery time of  1 to 3 days (same as Priority Mail).  meaning if USPS has possession it on Friday before  closing time their is a very good chance it would have been deliverd on Monday Oct. 29 or the 30th at the latest.

[goldguy22k]

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@rebby-clothes wrote:

If my handling time is 2 business days, why would I have to make a note that I almost always ship on the 2nd business day and only rarely ship sooner?

And unfortunately, it did show that estimate for some reason. Item sold on 24th, so due to ship 26th Friday, eBay estimates it should have been delivered by Monday the 29th, and I have no idea why because that is only 1-2 days depending if you count Saturday. USPS shipping calculator on the USPS site gave me an estimate of the 31st for the same shipping info. I double checked and correct handling time and shipping method were listed.

Would you have just shipped the item knowing it wouldn't arrive when the buyer needed it? Buyer was insistent that they needed the item to arrive before Halloween. it wasn't going to arrive in time, I wasn't going to eat the cost of express (more than cost of item), and buyer refused to respond after several days. Should I have waited for them to file INR? I'm pretty sure they would have just opened a return if it arrived after Halloween, which was why I didn't want to send it.

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Hey, I am going to disagree and state why, not intending to offend, just share a different perspective, so hope my style doesn't offend.

I think the reason "why" one needs to make extra notes or provide extra communication is because one is creating a "buyer experience!"   If one listened to the CEO's comments the other day the whole focus of the company, in response to a changing demographic, is to create a positive buyer experience.

Point is that there is little growth to be had selling to Baby Boomers (ebay calls them their habituated base of customers) and tonnes of upside selling to the millennials  So if one is selling baby clothes then one is likely selling to millennials, not Boomers.

Realize that millennials, right or wrong, operate in a certain way; they tend to be less patient, they need reinforcement, they want what they want and other ways of seeing the world and doing business.  So one can fight that trend and create a bunch of aggravation for them self or adjust and adapt to what the market desires.

I dunno, me? I probably over communicate with my buyers, letting them know the steps under my control and educating them a bit on how the rest works.  For me it is "managing buyer expectations" and providing a "buyer experience" and hopefully warding off drama later.  Oh, I know this isn't popular with many around here, from the comments last time I mentioned managing buyer expectations.  But one could understand that not every buyer is detailed oriented, but their green is still good and with a few minor adjustments one can provide a positive buyer experience.

So all of that said, just do not understand, on these boards, a lot of the hostility toward buyers (people giving us the cash) and what appears to be entrenched attitudes when it comes to change  or making adjustments.  But hey, that is just me!   That CC was a real wake up call - the winds of change have been here for a while.  

Hope this in some way helps and hope everything works out.

[goldguy22k]

Oh come on!  Where is the positivity in that reply?  Is it doom and gloom everywhere and one should just not bother? 

Selling bay clothes means one's audience is a certain demographic that perhaps needs a different style and some adjustments?

[rebby-clothes]

The buyer contacted me on the 26th not the 28th, I immediately posted that after my original post. I guess you can only edit posts once and I used up that edit fixing a spelling error and missing the other typo.... In any case, what the buyer was telling me about the delivery date seemed overly optimistic, I wanted to see what USPS website said and their shipping calculator with identical info entered gave an estimated delivery date of Oct 31, which depending on the time of day, could have been too late for the buyer. So I contacted the buyer with that info, and they never responded.

I just looked up the forced guaranteed delivery thing, and wow! I'm hoping the 2 day handling time excludes me from "fast & free" shipping, if not I'll switch to 3 days rather than be forced to use guaranteed delivery.

[missjen831]

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@myangelandmyprincess wrote:

Handling time still shows up on the app for me 

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I use the app 99% of the time and not all listings show the handling time. 2 out of my 5 recent purchases show the handling time. 

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@missjen831 wrote:

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@myangelandmyprincess wrote:

Handling time still shows up on the app for me 

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I use the app 99% of the time and not all listings show the handling time. 2 out of my 5 recent purchases show the handling time. 

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I’ve had it show on everything I looked at.  IF it makes a difference it’s the iPhone app version 

[missjen831]

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@myangelandmyprincess wrote:

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@missjen831 wrote:

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@myangelandmyprincess wrote:

Handling time still shows up on the app for me 

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I use the app 99% of the time and not all listings show the handling time. 2 out of my 5 recent purchases show the handling time. 

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I’ve had it show on everything I looked at.  IF it makes a difference it’s the iPhone app version 

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I use the iPhone app too.

[johnrj1226]

The 26 or 28  doesn't  make much difference as I stated based on your 2 day handling time the  package should have been in the hands of  the USPS on the 26th & delivery. would more than like on time unless you were  shipping from the east coast to Hawaii or Alaska.

 You also stated that you will  ship faster if the  buyer request it.  Is this  clearly stated in your listing to alert buyers that you  are open to ship sooner?  Previously asked this ?  but no RSVP.   My experiences  is that buyers want their item as soon as the  can get, they already  paid for it & when I buy I want it now.   This is why I always ship in one day or sooner and will always ship on Saturday even if the item was bought  late Friday - customer & their money are King/Queen in my book.

Selling is about making it easy for buyers to do business with you - never the other way around - learned that in a business communications class back in ancient times, 1965, and served me well until I retired from my sales and marketing career in 2007.

[myangelandmyprincess]

Weird wonder why it’s so inconsistent 

[dtexley3]

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@rebby-clothes wrote:

The buyer contacted me on the 26th not the 28th, I immediately posted that after my original post. I guess you can only edit posts once and I used up that edit fixing a spelling error and missing the other typo.... In any case, what the buyer was telling me about the delivery date seemed overly optimistic, I wanted to see what USPS website said and their shipping calculator with identical info entered gave an estimated delivery date of Oct 31, which depending on the time of day, could have been too late for the buyer. So I contacted the buyer with that info, and they never responded.

I just looked up the forced guaranteed delivery thing, and wow! I'm hoping the 2 day handling time excludes me from "fast & free" shipping, if not I'll switch to 3 days rather than be forced to use guaranteed delivery.

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eBay creates their delivery estimate based on your "average" handling time.  That's based on the time between the order and when you PRINT the label or enter tracking plus an (overly) optimistic carrier delivery time. 

So if you have a 2 day handling time but usually print your labels the next day then the handling time that eBay adds to their carrier time is 1 day, not 2. 

I have a 3 day handling time on my listings, but because eBay doesnt' respect that I rarely ship sooner than 2 days because otherwise I'll get roped into the fast-and-free/guaranteed delivery bucket against my will.  I have no control over the USPS delivery speed.  90% of my packages make it from the PO to the buyer in 2 days, but I can't take a hit on the 10% that don't.  I REFUSE to be held to a standard that I don't have control over.

[goldguy22k]

er, I recognize I am up against the GOMC, but I'm SMH on that comment about avoiding "Fast n Free!"

CEO mentioned on the CC the other day that ebay is now so confident in its delivery time estimates that it is now adding all FnF shipments to its "Guaranteed Delivery" program, even when the seller doesn't sign up for it!

I just looked up Fast n Free and found this policy statement:

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/shipping-items/estimated-delivery-dates-sellers?id=4086&st=2&pos=2...

Fast 'N Free listings - Now Guaranteed by eBay with seller protection

A great way to stand out and attract buyers is with Fast 'N Free. You don't need to do anything; we'll automatically add the Fast 'N Free logo to your listings with a Guaranteed delivery date, whenever you meet these requirements:

• Both you and your buyer are located in the 48 contiguous US states
• We can estimate the item's delivery date as four business days or less based on your handling time, the delivery service you've offered, your location and the buyer's delivery address
• You offer free shipping as your first (default) shipping option
• You don't offer local pickup or freight as your first (default) shipping option
• The listing isn't in Classified Ad format

If eBay determines that your listing qualifies and you meet your handling time, we will provide the following seller protection:

• If a guaranteed item arrives late, eBay will always make it right for your buyer with one of these options:
  • Shipping cost reimbursement
  • Voucher for a future eBay purchase
  • Free return label if the sellers accepts returns
• eBay will also remove any negative or neutral feedback left by the buyer regarding late delivery

This late delivery coverage does not protect your late shipment defects, and your listings can be deactivated from the program if they fall below the performance requirements.

So it looks like a good thing to be included in the GD situation.  Why would one extend their handling time to avoid something so positive?  What am I missing?