eBay

erwina11_3 · ‎03-26-2017

Hello Friends,

We have been victimized by what appears to be a Dummy Package Scam involving 3 cell phones purchased on Ebay and paid for via PayPal. Neither Ebay nor PayPal gave more than a cursory review of our filings and rejected out of hand our claims including Appeals. Clearly their Protection Plans are at best flimsy and at worst a Hoax.

Sadly, the phones were purchased from 3 different, first time Sellers who shipped them from the same Post Office via USPS on separate days spread over 2 weeks. We have detailed USPS Tracking Reports that clearly demonstrate false addresses for receipt. PayPal's response is that they have Strong documentation from the Sellers that Delivery occurred, and our only recourse is to contact the Seller.

Good Luck with that. All emails to the Sellers either by Hotmail or Gmail were promptly bounced back as Undeliverable. The point is that Delivery may have occurred but not to our address - a subtle but critical detail that continues to be overlooked by both Ebay and PayPal.

Sound Familiar? Sure looks to us like Mail Fraud.

The next steps that we are considering are to 1) File Report with USPIS 2) File Report with local Police 3) Contact FBI Mail Fraud Division.

Our questions are if anyone has had a similar, recent experience and was there a successful outcome? i.e. did you get your money back from either Ebay or PayPal? What additional steps should we consider?

Looks like a long slog, but after all we are out nearly $1000.

Many thanks,

deep-garnet-red · ‎03-28-2017

@erwina11_3 wrote:
We carefully studied the 3 sellers profiles and know their names, but do not know if the names are real. One interesting thing is that they live in 3 different states, and yet all the phones were supposedly shipped from a 4th (different) state.

Does anyone know a different, more direct way, other than feedback, to report a fradulent seller?

https://www.ic3.gov/

This is the site for reporting internet crimes.

carlmarxx · ‎03-28-2017

@erwina11_3 wrote:
We carefully studied the 3 sellers profiles and know their names, but do not know if the names are real. One interesting thing is that they live in 3 different states, and yet all the phones were supposedly shipped from a 4th (different) state.

Does anyone know a different, more direct way, other than feedback, to report a fradulent seller?

You Need to file a report on FBI Online fraud .

erwina11_3 · ‎03-28-2017

Thanks so much - this is probably our next step.

erwina11_3 · ‎03-28-2017

I have a question for anyone who might know the answer. The Ebay profiles of these 3 sellers contain only names (maybe not real), states in which they live, and email addresses which are defunct. There are no street addresses in their profiles. Is it even possible to set up an Ebay account without providing a street address? I also don't understand how Paypal even contacted them when we first reported the problem.

deep-garnet-red · ‎03-28-2017

Street addresses are not made public on eBay to protect the privacy of members. You used to be able to get that from someone you had a transaction with by using a Request Contact Details link, but I'm not sure if that still exists.

erwina11_3 · ‎03-29-2017

Thanks for the info, deep-garnet-red. I kind of thought that was the case. Just wanted to be sure I am not missing something.

erwina11_3 · ‎03-29-2017

UPDATE: Even better news:

Our bank has opened an investigation, not sure what exactly that means. We pay them a $5 fee per month to protect us from fraud.

We got an official notice from Paypal that the case of one of the phones that was delivered to BOTH THE WROND ADDRESS AND WRONG ZIPCODE (which should have been an automatic refund in the first place) has been decided in OUR favor. So we will be getting about $300 back out of the $1000. So this was the low hanging fruit.

The other 2 cases, where the merchandise was supposedly delivered to the wrong street address, but within our zipcode, are still under review.

We were so exhausted yesterday after having an almost 2 hour conversation with Paypal. Our issues got kicked up 2 levels in the chain of Management during this conversation. Believe me, they tried really hard to get us to drop our case.

I want to thank everyone for your support.

ir0nmaiden66 · ‎03-29-2017

I'm just curious. Those two that were sent to the wrong address, did they provide tracking numbers? If they did, then usps can print you out a detailed document to where that item was "delivered", which then you can send to ebay and let them see. It will show date and the address as well as their codes and whatnot.

I just dealt with this kind of issue and once eBay saw that document, they gave me the refund right away, didn't even get paypal involved.

erwina11_3 · ‎03-30-2017

Yes, we did all that in the beginning. We even created a detailed map showing the post office, the location where the 3 phones should have been delivered, and where they were actually delivered. Ebay and Paypal initially did not want to see our documentation. Paypal told us they would accept the Seller's doc and would not allow us to upload our map to them or anything else we happened to have. One Paypal Rep even said that the delivery to the correct address did not matter as long as the item was delivered to the correct zipcode.

erwina11_3 · ‎03-30-2017

I am so happy to report that Paypal has decided in our favor and refunded all of our money for the 3 phones. What a relief!!

Cudos to Paypal though they did not make it easy for us. This was such an OBVIOUS case of FRAUD.

It took 3 of us working on this almost non-stop for several weeks.

We will certainly be extremely careful in the future about checking out seller's profiles.

I want to thank EVERYONE who participated in this thread for your invaluable information. We could not have done it without the help of the Ebay community!!

One more thing. Perhaps we will still pursue the mail fraud complaint through the USPS. I would really like to catch these fraudsters. It appears that some of their accounts are still active on Ebay and I think they make strike again. The penalty for USPS mail fraud is YEARS in prison. Because the 3 apparently live in different states, yet they all shipped through the same SATELLITE post office in a different state, I fear this could be a ring of fradulent sellers. Does anyone know what Paypal might do to recover the money? How far will they go to prosecute the offenders?

phcd1 · ‎03-30-2017

@erwina11_3 wrote:
UPDATE: Even better news:

Our bank has opened an investigation, not sure what exactly that means. We pay them a $5 fee per month to protect us from fraud....

Why, what a waste of $60 a year.

erwina11_3 · ‎03-30-2017

I agree. Time to change banks.

vegasluckylady · ‎04-01-2017

Simply open a return and send back the package with it's empty content.

lw81556 · ‎04-05-2017

If the item is rather expensive, HERE’S HOW A POSSIBLE SELLER SCAM CAN WORK ON EBAY. It happened to me twice before within 2 weeks of each other before I figured it out, be careful! A newer “Seller” ( little to lose by feedback) individually lists semi-valuable items, like 3 rolls of Silver Quarters for a semi low price like $135 each. Good take for him at $400 total. You buy and pay. He sends item not using Ebay to produce the label, but uses his own which our shipping address can not be verified. He ships trackable junk mail to another address in your zip code. Receiver of the mail throws the junk mail away. Tracking says something like “DELIVERED IN/AT MAILBOX Apr-03-17, 17:50 PM, Your Town, VA 30162”. Tracking says DELIVERED and everybody (Ebay) ASSUMES to your mailbox. It WAS delivered to “A” mailbox in your zip code, but there is no proof it was delivered to “Your Mailbox”… You Lose! I have photos of 2 packages where I had to go to a lot of trouble to get from the postmaster photo of the packages on the line showing my USPS tracking # with a different address in my zip code. EBAY DID COVER IT AFTER I GOT THE EVIDENCE, but it took a lot of time, effort, and a drive to the post office to get my money back. START BY ASKING EBAY IF THE SELLER USED AN EBAY PRODUCED LABEL, IF NOT THEN......

needleinahaystack714714 · ‎04-06-2017

@deep-garnet-red wrote:
@needleinahaystack714714 wrote:
@deep-garnet-red wrote:
@needleinahaystack714714 wrote:
@erwina11_3 wrote:
We really appreciate your informative replies. Could you explain this part further?

"I also recommend discussing with your CC company a chargeback code that will not fall under Paypal's seller protection. The idea isn't to punish Paypal by just getting a refund, the idea is to get the money back FROM THE SELLER. There are actually CB codes that are almost impossible for the seller to win against... That's the one you want to choose."
When you contact your CC company, they will be able to best advise you on which chargeback code to open... Discuss codes 53 and 85 with them.

The same codes scammers use to rip off sellers.
@deep-garnet-red
Unfortunately this is true. But as you can see, they have their legitimate uses. You comment is exactly the reason I know about these codes and how they work... I got hit with an 85 some time last years. I decided to do some research on them and discovered they were the perfect weapon against sellers who know how to use eBay's own rules to defraud people.
And I believe it was you I learned about them from in another thread. I still can't condone lying to get a chargeback code. That is not legitimate.

But it is legitimate. There are many aspects to these chargeback codes and they fit right in with the OP's problem. One of which is the buyer is entitled to a credit they didn't receive... The buyer didn't get what they paid for and is most definitely entitled to a credit they didn't get. I absolutely do not think this is lying or even stretching the truth.