Difficult Buyer

[wallacesquared]

Hello

I sold a pair of authentic Gucci sunglasses to a buyer in the United States and sent them away from overseas. 

The buyer then raised a ticket stating the item hadn't been delivered. The tracking stated it was. Ebay closed the ticket and released funds.

The buyer (at the same time, not having received the item) went on to accuse the item of being fake, prior to even getting them.

I have now just received another message from the buyer stating the item was at the neighbors house (one week later) - they have raised another ticket stating the item is fake and want a return.

Nevertheless, I offered a full refund on receipt of the item provided they did not open all the packaging and sent it back as it was received. 

I provided a sales receipt from the Australia and New Zealand distributor for Gucci. They are still not happy.

The item has now been opened, tried on, and had god knows what done to it.

I have had to accept the return as I was worried it would be escalated and the funds would be released in the buyers favour. They now have to pay for the item to be sent back as I cant send a postage label from my location to the US. 

What happens when I receive the item back? Can I offer a refund less a re-stocking fee? I dont feel its fair to issue a full refund as they completely ignored my request. Had I disputed the refund, would have it been ruled in my favour had I mentioned I offered a refund from the outset provided the item was not tampered with? I have proof of this, so want to know for future

Thanks

[myboardid]

First, you are on the USA discussion boards, and we don't know all the rules for Australia, so it may be different there.

Here, if the buyer wants to return because the item is "fake" (true or not doesn't matter at all), they open an Item Not As Described case.  The seller is REQUIRED to provide either a return shipping label or a refund of the cost of that label so the buyer can send back the item.  Then, when the seller receives the item back, they must provide a FULL refund, including the original shipping cost.  NO restocking fee under most circumstances, but if free shipping was offered they can discount up to 50% for damage. 

In the US, you cannot charge a re-stocking fee.  Also, if you had disputed the return/refund, eBay would have given the buyer a full refund without returning the item AND given you a very serious defect on your account. 

[orangehound]

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@myboardid wrote:

Here, if the buyer wants to return because the item is "fake" (true or not doesn't matter at all), they open an Item Not As Described case.  The seller is REQUIRED to provide either a return shipping label or a refund of the cost of that label so the buyer can send back the item.  Then, when the seller receives the item back, they must provide a FULL refund, including the original shipping cost.  NO restocking fee under most circumstances, but if free shipping was offered they can discount up to 50% for damage. 

In the US, you cannot charge a re-stocking fee.  Also, if you had disputed the return/refund, eBay would have given the buyer a full refund without returning the item AND given you a very serious defect on your account. 

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Very good post ... just wanted to clarify two things:

or a refund of the cost of that label so the buyer can send back the item.

Though the buyer can purchase the return shipping and then get reimbursed, my understanding is that eBay expects the seller to provide the money up front before the label is purchased (otherwise there is no way for eBay to force reimbursement of shipping) ... that is

1. The buyer tells the seller how much return shipping will be
2. The seller sends the return shipping costs to the buyer via PayPal
3. The buyer purchases the shipping and returns the item.

If the seller does not provide money for postage, then the buyer can ask eBay to step in and the seller risks eBay (a) forcing to make a refund and (b) the buyer keeping the item (in practice, eBay will often give the seller a second chance to provide funds for return shipping after the buyer asks eBay to step in).

if free shipping was offered they can discount up to 50% for damage

I think you meant to write "free return shipping"

[pburn]

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@myboardid wrote:

First, you are on the USA discussion boards, and we don't know all the rules for Australia, so it may be different there.

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OP is registered in New Zealand. S/he sells on ebay.com. Since the sale was to a U.S. buyer, it took place on ebay.com. All ebay.com rules and policies would apply.

[wallacesquared]

Ok thanks for the help. 

I called Ebay this morning and they said had I not opened a return - they would have required the buyer to prove they were fake. 

[dtexley3]

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@wallacesquared wrote:

Ok thanks for the help. 

I called Ebay this morning and they said had I not opened a return - they would have required the buyer to prove they were fake. 

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I don't believe that CS told you the truth here.  eBay does not require the buyer to prove an item is fake.

brian@ebay  Could you please let us know if the process is different that we understand from the past?  Do buyers now have to prove items are counterfeit?

[brian@ebay]

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@dtexley3 wrote:

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@wallacesquared wrote:

Ok thanks for the help. 

I called Ebay this morning and they said had I not opened a return - they would have required the buyer to prove they were fake. 

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I don't believe that CS told you the truth here.  eBay does not require the buyer to prove an item is fake.

brian@ebay  Could you please let us know if the process is different that we understand from the past?  Do buyers now have to prove items are counterfeit?

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Hi @dtexley3, we take claims of counterfeit items seriously and in the majority of situations we will approve a return without requiring documentation from the buyer. However, there are times when we may ask for documentation that shows proof of counterfeit from the buyer. This may happen if the buyer and seller are located in different countries, though this may not always be the case. If a seller has concerns about a counterfeit return then it's best to contact customer support to see how best to proceed with the return. 

[wallacesquared]

Hey brian@ebay thanks for clarifying.

I have spent hours on the phone and doing research about possible outcomes, I am genuinely concerned I am now going to be without sunglasses and payment.

It is hard calling the CST and getting a different answer each time.

I am now at the point where I have sent the buyer $8USD to have the item returned to my US forwarding address, as it will be far less costly (upfront) for them as opposed to returning the item to New Zealand (more like $60USD). 

They are still refusing to send the item, stating its not enough money to send the sunglasses. I got the quote for postage off the USPS website. I have asked the buyer to tell me how much to give them, to cover postage, they flat out won't answer.

The dispute is currently sitting at "waiting for buyer to return item" - however that was only after calling CST and explaining the above to them. I am concerned the buyer will re-call CST and get that decision over-ruled. 

What more can I do? Is there anything I am missing here? 

[wallacesquared]

Thanks for replying brian@ebay  

I have spent hours on the phone to the customer services team and researching possible outcomes. I am now genuinely concerned I will be without payment and sunglasses.

I have got different answers each time ive called but proceeded with what I thought seemed the most reasonable solution.

I sent the buyer $8USD (as I can't generate shipping labels) to return the item to my US forwarding address, as it is far less costly and requires little effort on her behalf, comparative to sending the item back to New Zealand. 

I calculated that amount based on quotes from the USPS website.

I screenshot-ed payment to her and sent it to Ebay CST through the portal. 

.... Shes still refusing to send the item back, stating its not enough money to send it. I've asked her directly to tell me how much it will be so I can PayPal her the money....Still won't reply, goes off on other tangents each time I explain this.

The dispute is currently sitting at "waiting for buyer to send item back", however thats only after calling CST and walking her through the above and asking her to also input the box dimensions into the USPS website so she could see how I sent her $8USD. I am willing to bet the buyer will call up and have the decision over-ruled any day now in her favour. It also seems like the buyer is supposed to return the item at their expense for internationals (and then ask to have the money refunded) so I feel like I am doing my absolute best to help her out. 

Does anyone else have a suggestion as to how to proceed? Im very scared ill be without sunglasses or payment. 

[myangelandmyprincess]

While the policy makes it sound like the buyer is supposed to ship back and then get reimbursed this is actually not the case   The seller is supposed to provide shipping costs upfront.  If the buyer pays it out of pocket eBay has no way to enforce the seller reimbursing 

IMO this should go in your favor since you have attempted to send return costs (did you upload evidence of that into the case?)   And since the buyer is refusing to tell you how much they need...but who knows what eBay will decide 

[candiesduds]

Sounds like the buyer is simply trying to scam. She bought them from an international buyer and claimed they were fake hoping she would just receive a refund without having to return the item. When that didn't work and you provided proof they were genuine now she is refusing to cooperate in providing return cost/details. If you sent the $8 for her to purchase the label returning them to a US based address I think you've done just about all you can to accommodate this buyer.

Make sure you uploaded proof of this into the case details incase she would try calling into Ebay and stating you haven't provided the return label/funds for label. How long as this case been open? She should have only so many days to ship the glasses back otherwise it should be closed in your favor, you need to call in to Ebay to have it closed if it is past the return by date otherwise it will remain open 30 days before automatically timing out. Although she can run to Paypal and ultimately her CC if she is intent on trying to rip you off.

I would send her a polite but firm message stating you have provided the return costs and will not be refunding until you receive your glasses back. I would also state that the return will be held and inspected at that Post Office to ensure you receive back what was sent to her. Hopefully discourage her from sending you an empty box or a pair of generic glasses in lieu of the Gucci ones. Best of luck!

[wallacesquared]

Thanks for the reply @candiesduds 

I definitely uploaded proof to the case, a screenshot with transaction ID of the $8.24USD being sent to her, along with the forwarding address in the comments.

The case has been opened since May 8th, and I sent her the money on May 9th. CST mentioned she has three business days to make the return. 

I have definitely laid out exactly what she needs to do in order to get the return. My problem is because I will ultimately need to send the item to my forwarding address, then onto New Zealand, there will be a time delay in finding out whether I have been scammed.

She's already mentioned she is seeking a charge-back through her credit card company on top of the Ebay returns process..

I have actually thought about using "The Real Real" (luxury goods consignment service, they buy it, sell it, and take a cut) to pick the item up or send a label, that way it will get sent to them, they will access whether she has swapped the item out, and send return pics to me. It might be a way to get out of this mess. 

[myhonest2sense2010]

If the buyer sends back your item, I would just provide them with a refund. 

If there's a problem with the item when it comes back to you, notify Ebay and let them decide the case.

[wallacesquared]

That is a good idea ^ Keep it simple..

[tyler@ebay]

Hi @wallacesquared - brian@ebay is out today, so I'm hopping in to make sure you get a response. 🙂

I'm glad that you sent adequate return postage to the buyer and uploaded proof of that to the return. Now that that has been done the buyer has 10 days to provide proof that it has been shipped back to your return address. If they fail to do so after that time the request can be closed out without any refund being given (we assume they chose to keep the item). 

While we can't help with a charge-back situation, from an eBay perspective it sounds as though you have done everything necessary to protect yourself. I'm sorry you're dealing with this situation, but if you don't see tracking uploaded within that 10 day time frame please consider reaching out to CS so they can get it closed. Thanks!