Customs problem

[adi_boss1]

Hi so i ordered 3 separate items on ebay so 3 different tracking number 3 orders and the seller shipped with dhl but dhl in my country montenegro is awful they try on everything to charge you something so i buyed 90$ item on ebay and customs stopped that in my country and contacted me saying i need to pay 19% + something else and i dont want to pay because its not worth it so what should i do how to return it and get a full refund like this order never happened ? Thanks

[beskriver]

My main interest is to keep the flows up and make things easier. The law case, I usually "outsource" to they who are far better than I am in that area.

It looks like we are from different backgrounds and education. I work with systems by daily basis, and ensuring the flow from entrance to exit.

I recognise the differences between law expertise and engineering. I am in mid of the engineering,

That may also be one reason why, I take it easy regarding the ticking of the "gift" option.

I do however recognise the difference between doing things as private person, which is not ok for registered companies to do.

When I bring some nice coins in person and sell them, and gain a profit, I can do what my consciousness tells me without problem.

The difference, is if I have a company business, there I sell new unopened merchandise, I have to register all money from A to Z.

That is what I am not used to when it concerns "second hand" items bought and sold through my own pocket. That is very common in many European countries. There it is most common to take taxation where it is applicable. New unopened items from manufacture, all is taxed and registered.

Used "second hand" items sold in private, no taxation, unless that is done by a registered company.

Well, I have many other things to do, so many thanks for an interesting discussion. I learn a lot through discussions, even though these may lead in a way not favourable for me. The most important in "my world" is the results. LEAN is a way to results...

Pax vobiscum et ave

[the_fancy_fox]

Am I reading this correctly?  Because so many buyers purchased items from china over the holidays, customs is backed up so your solution to helping them and keeping goods flowing is to mark items as a gift? 

Just  when you think you have heard it all......

[cycle-dog]

When you buy goods from abroad, you become the importer. And it is the importer – i.e. YOU - who is responsible for assuring the goods, used or new, comply with your own country’s laws (health and safety regulations, etc.), paying the duty/VAT as well as to whatever rules govern importation of the particular thing you bought into your country -- in this case, Montenegro, the standard rate of VAT is 21% (up from 19%) as of Jan. 2018.

In addition to VAT (which is owed to your government on importation by you), couriers like UPS, FedEx and DHL as part of various government programs to help speed up the delivery of low value shipments across borders – i.e., goods valued under $2500, but it varies – might also in some cases charge the importer – i.e. YOU – “brokerage fees” for this added service, where applicable. If you wish to avoid these additional “brokerage fees” that couriers may or may not tack-on, if any, you may generally do so by self-clearing the package and dealing directly with your nation’s custom office on your own behalf instead. In either case, when you shop abroad and import goods into your own country, it is your responsibility to know the laws of your own country which includes duty/VAT. (But here you go: https://home.kpmg.com/xx/en/home/insights/2017/08/tnf-montenegro-vat-law-changes-include-an-increase... ). Not wanting to pay duty/VAT is not a valid reason for refusal and, among other things, would typically result in your transaction becoming ineligible for eBay’s Buyer Protection program.

Good luck, and ALWAYS remember, whether shopping on line or at your corner store, to include the tax!

[cycle-dog]

In the US and Canada, every state / province –like every member of the EU – likewise has its own set of rules when it comes to used goods. Generally, if you’re running a business, buying/selling used items, then you’re required to collect and remit sales tax. If, on the other hand, you’re just an occasional seller – dusting off and selling some stuff stored in your garage or closet (and presumably not making more than what you paid for it), then you don’t. But how much you have to sell to be considered a “business” varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and you’ll want to contact your own revenue office to learn the rules in yours. Then, there are the online rules, which can get complicated!

[pjcdn2005]

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@penguins_dont_flywrote:

One more thing ...

It is sellers who are doing things like marking the item as a gift or undervaluing the item that just may force eBay to change the way we do international sales.

I really don't want eBay messing with this ... and I'm sure you don't either ... but the UK government has already forced their hand for co.uk sellers.

In what way are they doing this? If you are referring to charging VAT to other EU countries that is a totally different thing than selling from a non VAT country.  Or is there something else that you are referring to? 

They are just the first government to do so. There are also grumbles in Germany ... Germany is already going after Amazon sellers. ...others will follow suit

And if they change it for the UK, they will change it for all sites ... just wait and see.

 UK's seller update this spring included a policy wording change according to ecommercebytes:

It’s interesting to note that this year, eBay UK included a section about VAT (Value Added Tax) and included a strict warning, as follows: “Falsification of information to evade payment of VAT may result in fines and/or criminal prosecution. eBay cooperates with government authorities in cases involving potential falsification of information to evade payment of VAT.”

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This also would apply to sellers (just business sellers?) that are in a EU country and that are selling to other EU countries OR listing on ebay on a site in the EU  OR if they actually store and ship goods from a EU country.   VAT is a domestic tax, not an international tax so I can't see how this would ever affect a North American seller unless that seller was listing specifically on a site in the EU. 

With domestic tax, it is the seller's responsibility to submit the domestic tax they have collected which is why the seller would be liable if the wrong amount of tax was paid.   It really has nothing to do with ebay as it is the sellers that should be collecting the tax other than the fact that ebay could provide information showing the seller's sales to tax authorities.   In an international situation when someone in a VAT country was importing from the US or another non EU country, the buyer, not seller is responsible for declaring and paying any taxes owed on that item. 

Disclaimer..I'm basing the UK situation just on information that I've read and I haven't gone deeply into it but I really don't see how it could affect international sales in any way on ebay.

Perhaps you are referring to something totally different that I'm not aware of?

[pjcdn2005]

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@beskriverwrote:
I do always go for the alternative "gift" in the customs declaration. That is the smoothest way to get items through customs.
The Swedish customs seem to scrutinize everything from outside EU (European Union) for the moment. When something is not declared as "gift", it will get stuck there.
Swedish customs take fees and taxes on items worth more than 50 EUR.

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Is 50 Euro the 'unofficial' amount in Sweden? I thought that they used the same amount as many of the EU countries which is 22 EUR but I could be wrong.

In Canada the official amount at which they can charge our version of VAT is C$20 but in most cases, they don't charge if the total is below $100.

[penguins_dont_fly]

@pjcdn2005

I am talking about filling out the customs forms as a seller/exporter.

As the exporter, it is not up to us to decide if something is or is not dutiable or subject to VAT (or any other tax).

It is up to us to fill the customs form out correctly and truthfully and to let the receiving country decide if and how much VAT (or other tax/duty) to charge the buyer/importer.

eBay already pushes the GSP here in the US and in the UK.  If the UK and Germany (and other countries) really start pushing back on eBay regarding falsified customs documents (undervalued, gifts, etc) ... eBay will start pushing back on ALL sellers ... because that's what eBay does ... "all for one and one for all".

We may be forced into GSP where they collect VAT and import duties up front (with no other international option) or into some other sort of upfront collection program....to "streamline the process" for buyers.

The GSP is not very popular with buyers ... because what may have just been passed through customs before without being assessed VAT/tax (even with a valid customs doc) will now be taxed upfront.

I do not want to be forced into it just because some sellers think they are doing the buyer a favor, or for whatever reasoning they might have (like the OP)

This is not about domestic taxes, like sales tax ... this is about import taxes and duties. Individual Sellers do not have the wherewithal to collect and submit taxes to all of the possible countries that they sell to ... so mother eBay will do it for us 😞

[pjcdn2005]

@penguins_dont_fly

I realize that the original intention was about the seller filling out the customs forms correctly but you gave some examples of 'might happen' that as far as I know, have nothing to do with sellers in other countries filling out customs forms.   I believe this is the article that you were referring to:

https://www.ecommercebytes.com/2018/01/31/ebay-issues-tax-warning-uk-sellers/

If you are running a business selling on ebay.co.uk it’s important to check you are complying with your Value Added Tax (VAT) obligations. Depending on where you or your goods are located and the size of your business, VAT rules may apply to you.

If your business is located in the UK and sells goods to UK customers and your total UK located sales are above £85,000 per annum, you must:

– register with the UK tax authority (HMRC), and

– display your VAT ID on your eBay listings; and

– collect VAT, and

– report your collected VAT by completing a tax return with HMRC.

That is not about selling internationally, it is about UK sellers collecting VAT from their buyers in the UK and in some cases..in other EU countries.  It isn't about filling customs forms correctly because it is about a domestic sales tax.  Yes, when you fill out a customs form, the information that you enter does play a part in how much that country will charge the receiver in sales tax and duty but that is not what ebay UK was 'warning' their sellers about. 

I'm not saying that you should not fill out a customs form correctly but I do have a problem when someone suggests that if sellers doesn't fill out the customs form properly that  might incur dire results from ebay.  Especially when they use examples that do not seem to apply to that argument in any way. Again...if you can show me differently, I would appreciate it but so far I haven't been able to find any information that the situations in the UK and Germany have anything to do with items being imported or exported.  

I don't see why ebay would really care about what sellers put on customs forms. Of course they have to take the stance that they should be filled out correctly but is isn't their responsibility to make sure that an international buyer pays the correct amount when importing something.

As far as ebay requiring US and UK sellers to use the gsp for international sales...that isn't going to happen. They started the gsp so that more sellers would sell internationally but if they didn't allow sellers to sell directly to other countries, I suspect that the amount of sellers who do sell internationally now would drop and ebay's commission would drop.  Obviously I don't know that for sure but I definitely don't see any evidence of that happening.