eBay

e-cheddar · ‎08-27-2017

SO, apparently there is a loophole in ebay's return system that allows buyer abuse of returns with ebay's blessings it appears.

A buyer purchased 6 videogames from me, 6 different auctions ending the same day. I combined the invoice, and shipped as one packagin once paid.

The USPS damaged the box, and some or all of the 6 items were damaged. I told the buyer to put in a return request for all or some of the items and I would approve the return and issue a return label. They start whining about how unsatisfying an experience, blah blah blah as if this were my fault somehow....i packaged the item VERY securely but only a STEEL BOX would have prevented damage from whatever impact this item received (i shipped in a NEW currugated box with more reinforcement INSIDE the box...it really was as bullet-proof as it could be but of course nothing is REALLY bullet-proof).

Anyway, they respond that they will have to inspect each item very slowly and return them one at a time, thus forcing me to pay return shipping 6 times even though these were shipped together. I got the first game back with a prepaid return label, and figured that was the only item damaged. A few hours after I refunded the first game, they requested a return on a second of six games. Even the behavior is suspect--if they wanted to return multiple items, why are they staggering the returns instead of sending them all back the same day, even if insisting on separate packages, separate labels, separate returns charges. I did inform them I would only issue one return label and that all items should be included but they ignored that and started a second return just after the first one was refuned. I can expect this 4 more times as there were a total of six items in the box. Presumably they were all damaged but I really don't even know if that's the case.

This seems abusive and punitive but ebay states this is how the buyers are instructed to return items!

Does anyone know if this indeed the process for returning multiple items from different listings but invoiced and shipped together? I can not find anything that states the buyer is doing the right thing but when I called ebay the supervisor I spoke to said this is how buyers are instructed to return items.

Really disgusted at this point.

Thanks!

shop_the_sandcastle · ‎08-30-2017

Really good point! I didnt even think about the fact that the buyer could play each game one by one and then return them all separately. This also creates the problem of 6 returns on the sellers reputation instead of just one.

green-night · ‎08-30-2017

@e-cheddar wrote:
Returning Multiple Packages:

For each return requested through My eBay, we generally provide one return shipping label. If you find that you need multiple return shipping labels to ship multiple packages back to the seller, contact the seller to make alternate shipping arrangements for the packages.

??????

I think you are misunderstanding what that means.

Your buyer needs to open individual returns for each of the items you combined into one shipment. One return shipping label WILL be provided for each return. I believe the wording above pertains to when a buyer is returning items from one order that would need to be returned in multiple boxes.

hafoster · ‎08-30-2017

@e-cheddar wrote:
Returning Multiple Packages:

For each return requested through My eBay, we generally provide one return shipping label. If you find that you need multiple return shipping labels to ship multiple packages back to the seller, contact the seller to make alternate shipping arrangements for the packages.

??????

For example, a lampshade and its pedestal --

or a computer tower and its LCD monitor --

may need to be packed in 2 packages --

but they together are one return.

e-cheddar · ‎08-30-2017

@kattinsanity wrote:
It's been like that forever~~that's why I don't combine shipping. If everything is in one package and that package gets damaged all the items most likely will be damaged. By shipping individually there is much less chance that ALL the items will be damaged. Then maybe only one item has to be returned~~if any.

The buyer has to have an individual tracking number for each item he is returning~~he can't use the same tracking number to get 6 refunds. Actually, it's safer for sellers to ship separate items~~then the buyer can't claim they were shorted anything. The seller has tracking numbers for each item they sent.

wouldn't you increase your chances of damage or NO DC on some if you sent 6 separate packages? And the shipping cost would go from $7 to $15 in this case had i sent them separately.

buyers can lie about incomplete/damaged items regardless of how they are shipped. it makes no sense for a seller to ship separately as far as I can tell.

e-cheddar · ‎08-30-2017

@hafoster wrote:
@e-cheddar wrote:
Returning Multiple Packages:

For each return requested through My eBay, we generally provide one return shipping label. If you find that you need multiple return shipping labels to ship multiple packages back to the seller, contact the seller to make alternate shipping arrangements for the packages.

??????
For example, a lampshade and its pedestal --
or a computer tower and its LCD monitor --
may need to be packed in 2 packages --
but they together are one return.

in any event, just wanting to share this story as I am sure others had no idea...

e-cheddar · ‎08-30-2017

@kattinsanity wrote:
I guess my question is~~why in the world are you shipping video games free using USPS parcel ground service? Why are you offering priority mailing at $3.49? $3.49 would cover the cost of 1st class mailing~~surely not priority mailing. If the buyer returns them using priority mailing it will cost you just under $7.00 each for the return shipping. The $3.49 will probably cover 1st class mailing with tracking~~the buyer has to provide tracking to ebay to prove they returned each & every item.

I don't offer combined shipping for this very reason. YOU can't prove what you shipped and if the buyer combines shipping on the return THEY can't prove what they returned to you. It appears the buyer knows more than you do.

i actually ship them first class in most cases...i state USPS parcel ground because i was getting first class packages showing up late so I offer parcel ground but really use FIRST CLASS...i have reasons for priority as well but im already tired of this tangent. .in any event, it doesn't matter if I ship separately or together...they could lie about single packages as easily as one package...same on the returns...also increases chances of damage back or forth with multiple packages streaming through USPS....

and yes, the buyer knows more than me...probably because it would never occur to me to punitively punish a seller that tried to do everything right yet had something go wrong thanks to USPS (since youve been looking through my profile, perhaps you could view the feedback comments on my packaging practices, which of course will be blemished with 6 negatives any day now.)

e-cheddar · ‎08-30-2017

In case anyone is interested, this is how it started:

BUYER: heya. i got your package today, this is maybe the 8th package or something i got from you i believe as im now up to something like 15 of those glasses. anyway, i wrote you at the time of purchase to request you take care in shipping, unfortunately i can see that was either missed or ignored as the games we all just put in a box with absolutely nothing on them, one of them being crushed by the box as it wasnt even big enough to fit them all, another with a now damaged corner . i didnt look through everything yet but that was extremely disappointing they couldnt be delivered as they were shown due to poor shipping practices, again i bought from you before and i dont remember carelessness like this before. im writing you first before i take any actions on the pinball dreams and ms pacman, let me know how you want to proceed please

ME: Please return whichever items are damaged or everything for a full refund. You should be able to request a return in your order details.

Sorry!

P.S.: Keep the free gifts included

BUYER: I gotta say its really not a satisfying experience to bid on something just to send it back for a full refund like the transaction never happened, minus the unpacking and repacking headache over something like this that could have very easily been avoided with even just a hint of care taken when the items were sent. I'll send them back as you requested, will need to do 1 at a time and i will of course ask that you provide for the return shipping

(this sounded like a threat to me but apparently it is ebay's pointless policy. I think he was going for a partial refund, but since my listing specifically states I don't do partial refunds, he was kinda stuck with either keeping as is or returning it. Otherwise, not sure why he was writing back about being unsatisfied...accoording to my return policy it comes back if it's enough of a problem to complain about).

These are my return policies on the listings , which I am sure many of you will nitpick to death:

Our Policies:

We ship within 24 Hours of Payment

We Can Not Hold Items for Delayed Shipment Due To Ebay Seller Policies

We Do Not End Auctions Early

We Use Delivery Confirmation For All Shipments

We Do Not Offer Partial Refunds, However All Items Are Returnable

Signature Confirmation is Used at Our Discretion

Payment is Expected Within 4 Days of Auction/Sale End

Nitpickers strongly encouraged to shop elsewhere

kattinsanity · ‎08-31-2017

"Wouldn't you increase your chances of damage or no dc on some if you sent 6 separate packages"? Your chances of 6 damaged items would DECREASE had you sent them in 6 different packages. What are the odds that ALL 6 would have arrived damaged? Tracking is free on 1st class packages so you would have had 6 tracking numbers so how do you believe you wouldn't have dc on some of the 6 packages?

"The shipping cost would go from $7.00 to $15.00 in this case had I sent them separately". So~~you combined shipping and saved the buyer $8.00. Now it's costing you $15.00 to get them back. If you had sent them separately he wouldn't be sending 6 back as all 6 wouldn't have gotten damaged. You were "nice guy" and saved him $8.00 but now it's costing YOU that $8.00 additional out of YOUR pocket in return shipping.

awarenessvinyl · ‎08-31-2017

Just refund the buyer in full and let them keep the items.

If the buyer is going to keep the good ones and send you ones back that don't work, why would you want them back? You won't be able to resell them.

phcd1 · ‎08-31-2017

@e-cheddar wrote:
.....obviously they are gaming the system and ebay has provided the means to do so ...

Buyers have been gaming the system for years, this is just another game. Buyers are really not at fault, eBay is for not using common sense in most cases. The issue is, common sense can't be programmed.

phcd1 · ‎08-31-2017

I would have blocked (and packed well for the last time) after that 8th sale with that message. Obviously that buyer is gaming you from that message.

BTW, I really don't see how plastic games can get damaged, but buyers are always right (then blocked).

e-cheddar · ‎09-07-2017

@phcd1 wrote:
I would have blocked (and packed well for the last time) after that 8th sale with that message. Obviously that buyer is gaming you from that message.

BTW, I really don't see how plastic games can get damaged, but buyers are always right (then blocked

this person was whining about a dent in the game box...ive never had these problems until I started selling my old vintage videogames...the demographic for these items is very...difficult...just had another buyer buy a videogame graded as 'good'...he emailed and asked if there were any cracks on the jewel case....i said there werent, as the face and the back of the jewel case were pristine despite this game being in my collection over 20 years....so I send it off and he finds a hairline crack on the SIDE of the jewel case and wants to return it....this is a vintage game from like 1995 and it was $13.99 WITH FREE SHIPPING...my listings clearly state that I do NOT do partial refunds to avoid this kind of nonsense but they still try to shake you down after the sale. considering listing the rest elsewhere...in 20 years of selling here and elsewhere, never ran into these self-entitled obnoxious buyers until I started to get rid of my videogames....i usually sell other media, mostly in new/sealed condition...no issues with those types of products.

e-cheddar · ‎09-07-2017

@awarenessvinyl wrote:
Just refund the buyer in full and let them keep the items.

If the buyer is going to keep the good ones and send you ones back that don't work, why would you want them back? You won't be able to resell them.

lol....$100 worth of videogames...sure, why not?

outcome:

Dear resist2017:

Thank you for contacting us about case XXXXXXXX for the following item:

ITEM #

We've reviewed your concerns and have reversed the outcome of the case. You don't need to take any additional action to reimburse eBay for the refund paid to the buyer, and eBay will make no further attempts to seek reimbursement from you.

Because we decided in your favor, this case, any feedback left, and all detailed seller ratings left, will not affect your seller performance. In addition, any feedback left for this transaction will be removed.

If you have other questions, please contact us. You can reach us by going to the eBay website and clicking "Help & Contact" in the upper right corner and then selecting "Contact eBay."

Thanks,

eBay

Please don't reply to this message. It was sent from an address that doesn't accept incoming email.

I suspect ebay funded this mess? Doesn't matter to me...ebay made the right decision as I pay way more than this single transaction ($20) in FEES to ebay, so from a business standpoint, it makes sense for ebay to fund such disagreements....glad because i was SOOOOOO close to closing up shop here if they forced a refund out of me for this...im actually shocked...now I need to go start up another stores subscription because I cancelled my store over what I thought would surely go entirely the buyer's way.

sidemouse · ‎09-07-2017

I am curious, one possibility is when buyers act this way it's because something has aggravated them and now they're taking it out on you.

@e-cheddar wrote:
These are my return policies
Signature Confirmation is Used at Our Discretion
Nitpickers strongly encouraged to shop elsewhere

That may have been enough to upset a buyer into acting this way and I was going to ask about signature confirmation but ...

@e-cheddar wrote:
they claim they only have time to visually inspect one item out of the six every week or so.....obviously they are gaming the system. To allow them to drag this out as a means of harrassment is really inexcuseable.

It's not the smartest way of doing things from a buyer's end either, even if you did something to truly aggravate this buyer it would have been smarter for the buyer not to mess around.

Honestly however I suspect the buyer is playing the games and then trying to return them one by one, sort of like renting them for free.

@e-cheddar wrote:

ITEM #

We've reviewed your concerns and have reversed the outcome of the case. You don't need to take any additional action to reimburse eBay for the refund paid to the buyer, and eBay will make no further attempts to seek reimbursement from you.

Because we decided in your favor, this case, any feedback left, and all detailed seller ratings left, will not affect your seller performance. In addition, any feedback left for this transaction will be removed.
eBay

I suspect ebay funded this mess?

It could be, however they usually hint at a courtesy refund when such is the case but I'm glad to know ebay has taken a stand because even if you abused the buyer that doesn't make this kind of behavior right.... No, personally I think this was a case of game rental.

Either way it looks like someone slipped up on their own slickness.