eBay

annarborwatchcollector · ‎06-11-2018

Apparently a lot of sellers still haven't figured out that regardless of what they've set as their listing policies or how they've described their items, buyers can always return any item they want within the first 30 days.... and often longer.

All a buyer has to do is choose the "item not as described" option and the return will be forced back against the seller, and shipping will be charged to the seller as well.

There is no judgement, evaluation or justification required from the buyer.

In the details text box they could probably copy and paste text from a random online article, book or poem and it would have no effect.

But, as a practical matter, all they really need to do is simply state:

"Does not match description and photos."

There's no actual critical review that's going to occur on eBay's part.

I've had returns "reviewed" and settled by eBay in mere moments in the middle of the night, where both sides had provided text and photos that would clearly take more than a few minutes to review.

I've had buyers admit they installed electronic computer parts where the listing clearly specified returns were not allowed if the component was installed.

I had a buyer provide a photo (by mistake) proving an item was working (along with the photos they supplied trying to claim that it was not working). My next comment in the message chain pointed this out so that it could not be missed by any staff reviewing the evidence.

Folks, there is no review of evidence.

Since eBay isn't providing the product, they don't have money invested and suffer no loss.

Therefore, their business process tells them the most profitable course of action is to always side with the buyer and let you the seller take the loss.

It's a classic Win-Win-Lose situation.

(Buyer-Ebay-You)

And no, it doesn't matter what any CS representative has told you one the phone, so don't waste your time asking for their name and documenting your calls.

It's no coincidence that they are not permitted to put their words in writing and email them to you.

So, if you were thinking of opening a thread asking about advice regarding buyers abusing the eBay system for returning items... sadly, the response really is:

Yeah, and?

You're mostly likely (okay, certainly) going to lose and then just call CS and ask to open an appeal.

Only at that point is a human with any authority going to have any actual involvement.

It's not unlike the horror stories you used to hear about insurance companies that would simply deny all claims without bothering to review them, only actually considering those that bothered to appeal.

Some companies (eBay included) consider this to be a profitable tactic because many will give up and then the problem goes away on it's own.

babalu20 · ‎06-11-2018

There are even returns of items clearly marked and sold for parts or not working no returns. (Of course that happens after dishonest buyers remove the part or knob or switch they want and then find a reason to return it.)

rosalie665 · ‎06-19-2018

I fully understand and am working on one myself and posted this yesterday on a tread:

Have you also been seeing a marked increase in Returns and Unpaid Cases and the decline of Seller Protection under eBay's new push to get Sellers to offer Free Returns? I certainly have. I used to go months without a return and unpaid cases were virtually unheard of. Now I've had 2 unpaids in a week and it seems a week doesn't go buy that someone isn't wanting a return or discount, after recieveing items sold as "No Return".

My latest was truely an example of the way Seller's issues are being handled (or not being handled) by eBay.

We sell a buyer a Used Gas Pump Nozzle, listed as Good Cosmetic Condition, as is and provide photos. Buyer purchases it, gets it and installs it on a modern gas pump, with paying customers. Says it pumps gas, but doesn't seem to want to work correctly with his pump and cash register. He claims it keeps stopping the pump a few cents short of what is programed. And even though it doesn't sound likely to me (sounds like a pump or register problem), I decide to shorten the process, accept the return and send out a return label.

At the same time I remind the buyer that it needs to come back clean, in the same cosmetic condition and free of gas fuel.

Instead of cleaning it, he stuffs a rag in the nozzle end, drops it in box with some scrap cardboard and ships it off. I sent it out wrapped with bubble and cardboard, but he took a shortcut sending it back.

When I opened it, the handle was all scratched up, the trigger no longer operated smoothely and worst of all, the nozzle, rag, scrap cardboard and shipping box reeked of gas fumes. Truely overwelming, after being in transit for a few days in a sealed box.

Between the scratches and fuel stench, I open a case citing that the item was received back in "not the same" condition. I sent photos showing the handle scratches and explained I wished I could send evidence of the gas fume smell.

I got back the standard from letter saying that "what I experieced was unacceptable" to eBay, but of course it turns out it was acceptable, since they reached into my PayPal account and gave the buyer a full refund from my account and I paid the shipping in two directions. They cited that the photos were not "definitive proof" that the item was damaged while in the possession of the buyer.

Now this is where it ratchets up even more. I go to the eBay site, to the Dashboard and click to start the appeal process, where it says I can send in more info, photos, etc and open an appeal. What comes up isn't an appeal anymore, but the phone number to call ebay and I get a rep who tells me the in an effort to "Streamline" the return program and "bring eBay in line with other platforms” such cases are no longer eligible for appeal because I agreed to the return and the buyer shipped it back. She then added that -I have no recourse. In other words, as a Seller and small business you have to suck it up and take the loss of time, revenue and accept back a product damaged by the buyer.

Ever since eBay stopped letting Sellers provide negative feedback about Buyers, that other Sellers can see and read, it seems that the protection afforded Seller's on eBay has been on the decline.

I don't think a week goes buy that I don't get an e-mail from eBay or a text telling me I should be offering "free returns" on all my listings or notes that come in with my Unsold items suggesting I lower the price as I relist an item, to make listings more "appealing" to Buyers. It all seems to be focaused on "Postivie Experiences for Buyers" and every time a Buyer has any remorse about an item, I get e-mails encouraging me to override my NO RETURN policy and give them a return. What happened to a "Seller's positive experience"?

There is an entire group of buyers (still the minority, thankfully) that send e-mails wanting discounts, free returns and free return shipping, simply because there is something they take issue with or by complaining hope you will give them a Refund (and let them keep a less expensive item too) or provide a discount to make them go away. Lately, I have had:

- Buyer says "These toys were smaller then I thought", even though they were photographed next to a tape measure
- These Off Brand jeans, sold New with Tags and a label marked Stretchy, "don't strech like my old Levi's". I want to return them.
- This coat isn't "winter" enough, since it is colder in my area then yours. I want a to return it.
- An one of my favorites: I put the new transfomer you sold me into a faulty system, it worked, then fried like my first one. "Please take it back."

And it goes on and on. I have yet, in my years of doing this to find a description that works to say No Returns (as is, as shown) Means No.

OK, back to the Gas Nozzle. I report the package to my local Post Master and Postal Inspector, as having arrived as Hazmat & Flamable and potientially Explosvie. The take it seriously and have opened a USPS case, planning to call the buyer on it. Of course, now he's free to give me Negative Feedback, since I "complained" and didn't like getting back a dangerous package.

So, I call eBay again today and speak to the appeals dept, asking how I file an appeal, since the option seems to have "disappeared" from the web site and reluctantly, really reluctantly, the rep agreed to send me a SR# form to open an appeal. It seems the appeal process is the next part of Seller Protection to be on the decline.

I swear the next time eBay calls to tell me about spending a percentage of my profit to get "Promoted" listing placement I think I'll suggest that I'd rather spend that amount buying "Buyer's Remorse" insurance. Now that, at least, is a program I could get behind.

So in short, are the rest of you experiencing such issues?

agent006140 · ‎06-19-2018

due to high volume of disputes,both Paypal and Ebay use robots to tackle the case first,robots do not read email or watch movie/pictures.

try appealing and have a real person look at your case.

installing component in your device is NO NO,it is no longer in the same condition as sold

agent006140 · ‎06-19-2018

buyers can return the item within 30 days with Ebay,180 days with Paypal and his cc issuer.

returns are part of retail business,as long as the item is returned in same condition as sold and buyer pays return shipping,unless seller misrepresent the item.

if buyer abuses the return ,report him to Ebay,someday he would not be able to buy on Ebay as he becomes a hazard to the seller community.

makingt-46 · ‎06-27-2018

Your exactly right there is no protection for the seller at all. I am currently going through a return because they said its defective, which I know it's not. I have went out of my way taking pics and video of the item running as well as it being packed to ship. I ask for the buyer to send me video of it not working he said no just send me a return label and requested I pay shipping both ways. Ebay took almost $400. Out of my PayPal account to cover this item as soon as he filed a return which he filed a request before he even told me it was "defective" . So no it apparently don't matter what you do to try to protect yourself as a seller the buyer will be right...which is so wrong. I will let everyone know if eBay decides to actually protect me from a loss that I should be protected from.

soh.maryl · ‎06-27-2018

Exactly how have you determined that "someday he is unable to buy". The only situation where that happens is if he has had two unpaid item cases in 12 months. Or if someone calls eBay's attention to the fact that he has opened an inordinate number of cases (that number to be determined by eBay and apparently kept secret).

Also, if a buyer has opened an item not as described case, the buyer DOES NOT pay return shipping.

nkpina2014 · ‎06-27-2018

@soh.maryl wrote:
Exactly how have you determined that "someday he is unable to buy". The only situation where that happens is if he has had two unpaid item cases in 12 months. Or if someone calls eBay's attention to the fact that he has opened an inordinate number of cases (that number to be determined by eBay and apparently kept secret).
Also, if a buyer has opened an item not as described case, the buyer DOES NOT pay return shipping.

Additional to the above - the buyer can simply open another Ebay account. Ebay doesn't restrict buyers and sellers having multiple accounts (and often encourages it per their policies).

vwdannie · ‎06-27-2018

This is NOT entirely True at all..! (Trust Me I hate having to give eBay credit)
I do however agree that the process is Botched and the fact sellers can not leave Negative Feedback for Buyers anymore is Junk Policy too for the Community...

But I have had SEVERAL return requests Closed in My Favor (Seller) over the Buyer's "Item Not as Described" return... More so in 2018 since the seller protection gimmick has come to light...

Here are the few that took place:
Sold a guy a $650 Vintage Watch; mind you I wore the watch a week before listing it to make sure it worked well & said this in the listing... Also the listing was $650 or best offer & the Buyer hit Buy It Now and paid like it was nothing... The buyer was even communicating by messages and I advised him I was going out of town later that week too...

When I got back of course he now has an issue talking about that the hour hand only is not working...
So I ask multiple questions asked for photos but buyer never supplied photos or any information about what they did to the watch since getting it...
The Buyer wanted $200 back or to keep the Band & return the watch (which is extortion) and of course I refused and wanted the watch back in complete condition...

Now I went and checked out his feedback and figured out he had purchased other watches of the exact same type and that for me it seems he was trying to pull a parts swap on me... Plus he was making demands that violate ebay policy... Did ebay care about that part..? Nope..!
The autorized a Return Labal; but the guy never sent the item back, so ebay systematically closed it...
NOT OVER - Buyer now goes through PayPal returns network making claim of same sorts; I supply a butt load of screen shots of the conversations & his extortion tactics etc. Since knowing the guys location & name I google his name guy is a Heart Surgen, so hes no fool... So of course PayPal too authorizes a Return; but again the Buyer sends nothing, paypal closes case...
STILL NOT OVER - Paypal informs me that the Buyer is doing a Credit Card issuers return demand or what not; now I been selling on ebay for over 15 years and never had it gone to this level... But over all these years too I began to write a much more legal minded and guided listing/contract so that if a situation like this ever does get to a court of law level my contract is in place too in the Matter...
So for sellers who think having a plan basic listing is the way to be are fools; period.
Anyways I send PayPal everything I got and the outlined & highlighted details of my listings legal agreement; they of course love it because my details in the legal portion of the listing protect the sheit out of me... At this point its going on 6 months dealing with this return and finally Paypal informs be that the case is closed & was escaleted to their legal department to fight the Credit Card company...
No refund from my finances were ever issued.

NEXT SITUATION: X-Mas Gift Video Card
So I got a MSI Video Card for XMas this year & when I installed it in my system my system itself was too old and the card really was pointless in my system as I would have had to buy all new equipent to use it to play the game; so I decided to sell it as "New (Other)" Buy It Now/OBO for $425...
I explain in the listing that I got it for xmas tired it in my system and didnt want to upgrade; I noted it worked fine just I couldnt maximize its potential because of the lack of hardware on my end... Photos showed the box open and photos of the card front and back with serial #s and all...
So I get a BUY IT NOW buyer pays and out goes the item; about a week later the classic "Item Not as Described" return pops up buyer is claiming it was open boxed & not new but used and damaged...

So begins the Communication and I HIGHLY RECOMMEND ALL SELLERS COMMUNICATE to draw out the buyer to use later in the case... I basically asked the Buyer to send me photos of the items Serial # of the item... It took awhile but eventually he sent a photo & it showed that it was the item from the listing...
We proceeded to communicate I told him the item was the one from the listing and began to expalin to him that the Item is as Described and sent him links and screen shots of eBays "New (Other)" definitions and such... I told him, his complaint is not a reason; he then started to accuse me of "making money on the deal" and he wanted his money back cause he felt he paid too much...
So now the story is not what it was but "Buyer Remorse"...
I was able to do this through the ebay resolution center messages thingy; so the record is all there for the ebay reps when needed later as you will have to wait days before you can escalate the situation even if you have them all drawn out and the evidence to prove it...
So I waited and called first thing in the morning to initiate a close out of the case against the buyer as ficticious and presented what I had in the system...
The eBay rep agreed and closed out the case in the Sellers Favor & No Refund was Issued as it was Proven that the case was Buyer Remorse and not that the item was not as described...
Case was Closed.

Next situation: G-Shock watch
I make a listing for a Used G-Shock watch for $25 BIN FREE S&H...
Now ebay sometimes adds its own details (especially is you click sell one like that item from someone elses listing) at the top; some sort of generic fill in so with this listing it did that...
_Sellers be sure to remove all that garbage from your listing as it can bite you in the buns later..!-
This listing mentioned that the dive rating was 200m even though all my listings are as is and for old used watches waterproofness is not something I can know or cover, but I admit that top generic detail slipped by me...
So about a week later I get an Item not as described return claiming the watch was not 200m proof and that when he was diving with it it failed at between 5-10m... Buyer submits pictures of Salt Water filled Watch..! Really..? SMH... Of course eBay issues a Return Label & I get back a totally destroyed watch; clearly returned not as sent so I made the claim to ebay and granted the item was only $25 they refunded me the buyer the $25 cause I sent pictures of the item ruined by the buyer so ebay paid it out...
How the details of that works is not known as its likely an internatal policy; like how department stores are allowed to give up to $50 off an item if it means making a customer happy... So this likely that kind of policy; I am sure someone out there has a different story when it comes to a Buyer ruining a more High Dollar item vs a low value item...

For the most part I have very few returns overall but my volume is low; however in the last 3 years for sure the increase in "item not as described" returns has risen for sure...
But in 2018 with the Seller protection policy in place its not as bad as in the past; I believe that using a lot of words to describe an item saves your butt in the Long Run...

I have more people that make offers and I accept & they never pay than anything; and not being able to leave a negative feedback for that eaks me still; so Id like to see that change... Even if a seller can only select a generic Negative Feedback I would be happy with that...