eBay

comyca · ‎03-05-2020

Buyer bought a flash for a camera from me. He said he wanted it overnight, he needed it the next day. (This should have been a red flag but I learned my lesson now).

So he paid about $100 extra (directly to me through paypal) for overnight shipping. He gets the flash the next day. Now, prior to this he was good at quickly communication via messaging on ebay.

So after he gets the flash I don't hear back from him till 11 days later. He says flash is not as described. I say OK, send it back and I'll issue a refund.

Today I get the flash back in the mail.

It's missing the original box!

I don't understand why he wouldn't send the original box back. And by original box I mean the official box with the UPC symbol that the flash came in when I bought it brand new.

Oh yeah, and he also wants his $100 back that he paid to me through paypal for the overnight shipping!

How should I proceed with this? I'm pretty sure he's running some kind of scam, maybe he has another flash and is going to use my box with the UPC symbol to return it to a store and get money for it.

Should I return him 100% of the money or issue a partial refund for the original box that is missing? The flash is worth $600 and that's what it sold for so having a original box is a big deal.

mtgraves7984 · ‎03-05-2020

A) If it was returned significantly different than sent (no box), you may NOT have to refund 100%.

B) The extra $100 should be on the buyer... you did your part.

^^ That's my kneejerk reactions... now let's see what the wise sellers say. I'm here to learn, too.

fab_finds4u · ‎03-05-2020

I see that you do not accept returns so that means you have to return their original payment and that is all.

Any money sent after the original payment was sent friend and family and doesn't have to be returned. That money was spent on a service HE wanted.

When your policy is returns accepted and eBay manages the return you can deduct up to 50% from their refund if they returned it without the original box.

You have 2 days to refund their original payment or eBay will step in and make the refund.

orangehound · ‎03-05-2020

A few things

Sorry. You have encountered an abusive buyer. Make sure you report them.
He is practicing a form of return fraud called "wardrobing" or "free rentals", usually done with clothes, where he gets the item for a particular one-time use and then returns it.
A seller should always minimize their shipping to reasonable amounts, so as to limit your exposure to loss. In my opinion, never, never, never offer overnight shipping because it can be leverage for an unethical buyer.
If someone needs something that quickly, they need to go to a local camera store ... or prey on another seller.
Since you chose to list your item with "no returns", the buyer's only method for returning the item is to invoke the Money Back Guarantee, thus exposing you to additional losses. Some buyer's lie to invoke the MBG.
For a Money Back Guarantee claim, the full amount of the purchase plus original shipping charge is supposed to be refunded ... you can choose to refund partially, but the buyer can call up eBay and get eBay to extract the balance from your account. I don't know how eBay would treat the upgraded shipping costs ... perhaps they would not require that to be refunded (it is very rare that sellers agree to such a cost).
Under current eBay practices, the only way that eBay would back you up if you gave a partial return is if either (a) you are a top rated seller offering 30-day returns; or (b) you offer free returns.

emansfield · ‎03-05-2020

My question is how would you even know he returned the flash you sent, since he didn't return it in the original box. Certainly eBay wouldn't make you accept the return in a situation like this! As you inferred, how are you going to relist it and sell it for what it's worth without the original box?

Also, if the buyer paid you the $100 directly through PayPal and Overnight Shipping isn't an option on your listing, seems like he'd be up a creek on that one.

No doubt you need to talk to eBay Customer Service about this one right away. Please let us know their "decision" on this one. I think they need to back you, NOT the buyer on this one.

comyca · ‎03-05-2020

I talked to Ebay and explained everything. The customer service rep told me I need to email the buyer and tell him what percentage I am going to deduct from his payment for not shipping the item back without it's original box with UPC.

I still don't know how to proceed with this, I have till the 7th to refund the money. He keeps sending me messages stating he wants his money right away or he will escalate the situation with ebay.

orangehound · ‎03-05-2020

@comyca wrote:
I talked to Ebay and explained everything. The customer service rep told me I need to email the buyer and tell him what percentage I am going to deduct from his payment for not shipping the item back without it's original box with UPC.

I still don't know how to proceed with this, I have till the 7th to refund the money. He keeps sending me messages stating he wants his money right away or he will escalate the situation with ebay.

No need to respond to the buyer any further. If this happened to me, I would refund the buyer in full, but not for the $100 for overnight shipping.

I assume that the device is still functional and like new ... yes, it won't sell for quite as much as it would if you had the box, but the hit might only be $50 or $100.
Keep in mind that if you try to do a partial refund, you will not get back eBay fees ... which is probably $55 for this sale. You only get back eBay fees if you refund in full.
#1 and #2 is why I would just go ahead and do a full refund, which is expected with a Money Back Guarantee claim.
As for the overnight shipping, that is separate from eBay and I would not refund it. The buyer might file a claim with PayPal or their credit card ... you could lose, because PayPal seller protection only applies to tangible goods, but perhaps demonstrating that the money was intended for overnight shipping and overnight shipping was provided could be sufficient. Also, the buyer might be satisfied with getting the full amount back for the device.
I would report the buyer for abusing the Money Back Return, returning an item in a deteriorated condition and claiming it is SNAD when it was correctly described.

andrew547 · ‎03-05-2020

Regarding the $100 overnight shipping fee:

(a) you provided that service and if I understand correctly, (b) it was an arrangement you made with the buyer outside of ebay. I wouldn't refund that. If the buyer files a separate paypal claim, provide them with the overnight tracking number and the receipt. Buyer bought a service. You provided it. I think that's the end of that.