eBay

earth*presence · ‎11-28-2019

I’ve read a few more posts on here - ok more than a few to try to get some perspective after my call with eBay this morning.

On the call I didn’t count how many times the word Buyer was said by the rep but it was definitely more than Seller or You. This is a Buyer centric platform. I was told basically, you take the risk when you sell online. Sure, I agree with that.

However.

In the interests of fairness and justice, I think Buyers should be required to substantiate their claim of SNAD, item broken, damaged in transit etc in order to provide accountability, just as Sellers do.

Proof. Everyone has a camera phone these days - or practically everyone.

Item damaged in transit? Photos sent within three days of receipt.

Item not as described? Photos sent within three days of receipt.

The day of accountability should be here for Buyers too. Fair is fair.

no_zero369 · ‎11-28-2019

I see your point and frustration. Shoot I was there when I first started selling. Got so mad and scared that I almost quit selling here.

Then I posted on these board and argued with other sellers and they finally beat me into accepting that returns are just part of retail selling and I needed figure those into my cost of doing business. Once I did that, I had funds set aside to pay for returns and to self insure against loses. That helped me sleep at night and continue selling.

From eBay's perspective for them to set them self up and arbiter on customer disputes would be costly and an impossible task. Sure everyone has a cell phone camera and can take pictures. But how does eBay know that the pictures are authentic, accurate and real? So I could open a box from a seller from the bottom, remove a gold bracelet, insert a rock, reseal the box and return the box to my mail box and THEN with camera rolling, go to the mailbox, retrieve the package and open it on 'film' only to discover I was cheated and the seller sent me a rock! After all the video proves it!

There are steps a seller can take when engaged in conversations with a buyer to lessen the chances of fraud. Plus there are steps a seller can take when fraud happens. For me it was better learning those techniques and having a contingency fund, than jousting at the windmill of eBay return policy.

All we have to go on as sellers is the morality of strangers, which appears to be waining with changing social mores.

earth*presence · ‎11-28-2019

Re; conversations with buyer.

Sure, and if the buyer does not respond? There is no conversation.

Re: rock and resealing.

Yes, I can understand that. Morality is important for selling online. I’m not a full time seller anymore, I was up until about 2008 then took a break recently came back. I am not sure I fit here anymore, so once this is done I think I am too. I can’t handle the anxiety and nebulousness. Personal fault I guess.

eta: the phrase I keep hearing is that this is part of selling online. I think requiring proof from the buyer will keep honest buyers honest just like a lock on the door keeps honest people honest.

With today’s morality, maybe eBay will have to step up to the plate as that is part of having a company supporting sales online.

no_zero369 · ‎11-28-2019

Hey I hear your shock and angst. Believe me I was there. I was selling things that require a signature confirmation so I had a lot to loose.

I think for me what caused the most angst and fear was just plain ignorance. Once I learned some selling techniques, I was able to take emotions out of it and make good business decisions.

What I learned from other sellers here is that returns are rare - less that 1 or 2% of sales. So that is manageable. There is no way to legislate or dictate morality. But one can plan and be prepared for when it happens and if one adds the cost of an occasional return into their business plan then it is no big deal.

So one technique is that I "tax" each sale by setting aside 5% of the sale funds as my contingency fund. That way IF I take a loss, I just go to my self insurance fund to make up the difference. All business have something like this worked into their selling price. One thing I learned from this was to do 'profit predictions' - see how much was left for me on an item once ALL costs were factored in. That showed me that some items just did not produce enough profit to be worth selling, so I donated them.

Then learning some things one can do to stop potential fraud and what to do when it happens helped ease my angst too.

So I have overcome this and I am sure you can too! Just be patient with the learning process! Good luck selling!

kensgiftshop · ‎11-28-2019

Ebay needs buyers and they want to keep the ones they have.

If a buyer has a problem, Ebay want's to get it settled as quick and easy as they can to keep the buyer happy.

It would be nice if buyers were required to provide some proof of damage or whatever their complaint is about, but that would be to much to ask of the buyer.

According to Ebay, buyers word is good enough and they don't have to provide any proof.

Have a great day

7606dennis · ‎11-28-2019

The problem is that eBay has no way of knowing if the buyer is correct and the item arrived damaged or the seller is correct in saying that it didn't. While the seller probably didn't ship the item in a damaged condition, that doesn't mean it wasn't damaged on the journey. Basically, eBay is in the position of having to decide a "he said, she said" situation without the benefit of having first hand knowledge of the facts.

Ordinarily, eBay decides that the buyer should get their money back and have to return the item if the seller wants it back. The seller than gets his money back provided that he pays the return shipping. I believe that many state's consumer protection laws mandate that the buyer not be out anything in such cases. Of course, if eBay didn't decide such cases this way, the buyer would have little alternative except to file criminal fraud charges against the seller if the item didn't arrive as advertised.

Does eBay lean toward taking the buyer's side? Probably, but they probably consider it best to error on the side of caution.

Would it be good for eBay to launch an investigation into each SNAD claim and have investigators determine the merits of each side in the case? Maybe, but I doubt if it would be economically feasible.

Do buyer's sometimes lie? Does a bear ____ in the woods?! Do seller's sometimes misrepresent their products? Again, does a bear ____ in the woods?!

"It is an intelligent man that is aware of his own ignorance."

2015mhfashions · ‎11-29-2019

Other online venues do enforce a requirement to provide photos / descriptions of any Snad claim within 3 days of receipt, after that all purchases are final so it's not that difficult to implement.

For this reason alone Snad claims are far far fewer on these venues, Scammers do not want to be questioned or to go through the hassle of providing evidence of what they claim.

I'm not saying it's a complete solution as it's still open to abuse but the mere fact there are stronger seller protections keeps many of the undesirables away.

I think we all agree there has to be a better way to handle returns as to the way it currently is, many times a seller can prove with communication that a buyer is outright lying to obtain a full refund including shipping and this is totally ignored.

monster-deals · ‎11-29-2019

@no_zero369 wrote:

Then I posted on these board and argued with other sellers and they finally beat me into accepting that returns are just part of retail selling

What about the other 300 million or so of us that don't do retail selling?

whatmorefabric · ‎11-29-2019

I sell on 4 other platforms and I have the fewest problems on Ebay.

Returns and false returns are all a part of business. I add an extra 49 cents to apparel fabric listings to cover my losses.

I have more scammers on Amazon and more complainers on Etsy. I have one lady on Etsy write a scathing email because I dared to ship fabric in an EBay envelope. I have a bad review on Amazon because a lady bought 2 yards of fabric and I shipped it in one piece. She thought 2 meant she would get 2 pieces of fabric.

I have insurance on my shop policy for returns that cost me over 150.00, but that is not practical for all.

I don't understand dishonesty.

Now back to dealing with my husband who is trying to transfer some money out of the business account to cover shop rent. All this chaos because he does not want to pay bank ATM fees, even though I am paying the bank ATMfees, not him. He is now going to drive 80 miles to take out the money to avoid bank fees. He is a software engineer...bang head.

tunicaslot · ‎11-30-2019

I have to say I would never mail an item bought on another venue in an Ebay box or polyenvelope - but that is me.

I find less returns and problems on the other venues I use or have used in the past due to the buyer having to prove a problem exists. False returns account for 95% of my returns on Ebay.

whammerscar · ‎11-30-2019

ebay is not a good place to sell auto parts - particularly electric ones. Buyer can get the part, plug it in and see if it was the problem, or worse damage it, then claim the part was "defective". Instant ebay approved return and then they tell the seller "that is the cost of doing business".

In my case the buyer claims not to have received my offer to exchange a defective part and a week later appeals to ebay for a refund and they give my the one finger salute and say "ok" return authorized!

Well - not anymore. BMW owners have lost a source of inexpensive parts and ebay loses the fees for my selling.

no_zero369 · ‎11-30-2019

@whammerscar wrote:
ebay is not a good place to sell auto parts - particularly electric ones. Buyer can get the part, plug it in and see if it was the problem, or worse damage it, then claim the part was "defective". Instant ebay approved return and then they tell the seller "that is the cost of doing business".

In my case the buyer claims not to have received my offer to exchange a defective part and a week later appeals to ebay for a refund and they give my the one finger salute and say "ok" return authorized!

Well - not anymore. BMW owners have lost a source of inexpensive parts and ebay loses the fees for my selling.

Well sorry to see you go! But hey!

You were faced with a "business problem" with your selling on eBay. The solution you chose was to throw in the towel and quit selling. Hey, this is your prerogative. An emotional response is a valid response to any issue.

Me? I would have taken the "problem" to heart and searched for a solution or way to fix things. But I like a challenge and 'figuring things out!' Perhaps you'll reconsider?

Posting a thread with your problem might allow other sellers who met a similar challenge chime in and help with a solution.

Good luck with your selling!

kensgiftshop · ‎11-30-2019

@tunicaslot wrote:
I have to say I would never mail an item bought on another venue in an Ebay box or polyenvelope - but that is me.

I sell on the other E site and I use Ebay boxes and tape and haven't had any complaints about it, yet.

Have a great day

vintagecraze50 · ‎11-30-2019

Good job Ken advertising Ebay with the mailers!!!!!

whammerscar · ‎12-03-2019

This isn't the first time this has happened. I don't need the money or the hassle. Plus, in the end if sellers don't stop selling on ebay for these reasons, they will NEVER address the problem.

I told the ebay rep that they should not even allow a seller to list an item with "no returns" because all the buyer has to do is claim it is not as described or defective.

Not an emotional response - a response to say I am willing to give up the ability to sell in order to send ebay a message. If all sellers with this issue did the same, they would do something.

If you have a solution to ebay being almost totally biased to the buyer - let me know.