Buyer being unreasonable about return... Need feedback.

[dcmerc2012]

I recently sold a camera lighting set. It is an older set, used and untested. In the description I stated that it hasn't been used in some time and worked fine back then, but that I have NOT tested it and make no promises as to whether or not it works and therefore was "being sold as-is, no return regardless." 

The buyer asked me if it had been tested before he made an offer on it. I informed him that it had not and that, again, it may or may not be in working order and that it was being sold as-is. He made an offer anyway and I accepted.

I sent him the item and now he has initiated a return request because he said it doesn't work. The interesting thing is that this particular lighting unit requires a rather extensive "re-start" proceedure to bring it back to life if it hasn't been in use for a while. The buyer even made reference to this after he sent the payment and he said that he would use that proceedure to try and restart it. He now says that he did the proceedure and it didn't work and now wants to return it.

He paid $185, including shipping and I offered a partial refund of $100. There has been no response as of yet. 

My question is this...

If he doesn't accept the partial refund and forces the return is there any appeal situation for me as the seller? I made it very, very clear that it was being sold as is and that I did not know whether or not it was in working condition. He acknowledged that. He also initiated the start up proceedure for the battery pack, that if not done properly, can fry out the unit. For all I know it was in working order and he fried it trying to restart it?

I really don't think I should have to take this return and I am curious what others think of this situation?

[robot-hands]

Only if you lised as "parts or repair" and you have a no returns policy could you deny the return or refund.

It's your choice to either take it back and refund or refund and let them keep it....if they deny the partial refund that is

[fab_finds4u]

This camera seems to be in working order. It worked just fine when last used.

 What you're trying to say is your ad made it clear it was sold "as is" UNTESTED, no returns -meaning  if it doesn't work -oh well-you knew it was old (vintage) and wasn't tested so you're stuck with it because this is an AS IS sale!  ???  Is that it?   Well, that is not how it works!

You can sell something you're not sure if it works or not and force the buyer to keep it if it doesn't work  if you list it with the item condition for parts and not working -and say something like not sure why it doesn't work or what it will take to fix it or if it can be fixed, so therefore no returns.  It has to be clear it doesn't work and might not ever work.  Your description leads the buyer to believe it it should still work  because it worked when you put it away.  

You left the item condition intentionally BLANK and why was that?  Because if you chose parts or not working you might have a hard time getting a good price for a non working camera......... If the condition is  USED it has to work as intended after the buyer powers it up.     

 What I take away is you're trying to pawn off/pass off camera you're not sure if it still works  and force them to keep it by saying AS IS if it doesn't work!   The bottom line is you didn't test it and they did, and they did it according to your proceedure,  and it still didn't work.  So you need to resolve the problem and accept the return and provide a return label.  There is no appeal.   If the buyer asks eBay to step in and decide you'll get a defect for a case unresolved by the seller.  And because your policy is no returns eBay might even give the buyer a full refund and not force them to return the camera.  

[plantaddict]

If he admitted to altering it as you say he done this procedure then I would contact Ebay and have them read that and they should side with you. A buyer cannot alter something. If you are selling something as parts/as is NEVER imply anything works. I understand the buyer messaged you and you informed him it was for parts and had not been tested but you need to include this in the listing under Item Condition.

Do be aware though he will most likely then run to Paypal and his CC if need be. I wouldn't offer any buyer a partial, most requests are just fishing for partials. Tell them return for refund and provide the label if it is SNAD.

[thatsallfolks]

---

@plantaddict wrote:
If he admitted to altering it as you say he done this procedure

---

Doing a "startup procedure" isn't "altering it". As the OP stated, it's a necessary process in order to use the unit in the condition as sold.

If it was sold as anything besides "for parts/repair", the OP will lose a SNAD.

[mudshark61369]

@dcmerc2012,

" I stated that it hasn't been used in some time and worked fine back then, but that I have NOT tested it and make no promises as to whether or not it works and therefore was "being sold as-is, no return regardless".

The set should have been listed with the condition "Not working for parts only"  then you would have been protected.  Since you listed it as used no matter that you wrote "it was not tested, and being sold as is, no returns", ebay's money back guarantee overides your return policy. 

"The buyer asked me if it had been tested before he made an offer on it. I informed him that it had not and that, again, it may or may not be in working order and that it was being sold as-is".

I would have blocked a buyer who asked a question that was already answered in the listing.  Those are exactly the type of people who will file disputes, and you don't need that as a seller. 

"If he doesn't accept the partial refund and forces the return is there any appeal situation for me as the seller"?

It is not likely that you will win an appeal. ebay allows buyers to return for any reason and will not dig into the issue, especially if Not As Described is the reason for a dispute.  If the dispute is still open, you can try calling customer service, and if you get a rep who is US based or speaks clear english, you might get them to review the messages, and close the dispute, but it is a long shot. 

"The interesting thing is that this particular lighting unit requires a rather extensive "re-start" proceedure to bring it back to life if it hasn't been in use for a while. The buyer even made reference to this after he sent the payment and he said that he would use that proceedure to try and restart it. He now says that he did the proceedure and it didn't work and now wants to return it".

To be honest, I would have tried to perform the recharge procedure before listing it. If the unit was an old rechargeable ni-cad system, re-charging the batteries rarely works, if they have been completely discharged, and sat for an extended period of time.  His trying to use the recharge procedure does not constitute "altering" the units, so don't try to use that as a way to get around the dispute.  That procedure was often provided by the Mfrs, of ni-cad systems, and required no altering of the units to accomplish.

[ed8108]

---

@dcmerc2012 wrote: I stated that it hasn't been used in some time and worked fine back then, but that I have NOT tested it and make no promises as to whether or not it works and therefore was "being sold as-is, no return regardless." 

He also initiated the start up proceedure for the battery pack, that if not done properly, can fry out the unit. For all I know it was in working order and he fried it trying to restart it?

I really don't think I should have to take this return and I am curious what others think of this situation?

---

It certainly appears curious you didn't perform the initial start up procedure to determine if the unit was in working order.

Just take the return, issue a full refund, if your buyer doesn't accept your  partial refund offer.

[missjen831]

---

@mudshark61369 wrote:

@dcmerc2012,

" I stated that it hasn't been used in some time and worked fine back then, but that I have NOT tested it and make no promises as to whether or not it works and therefore was "being sold as-is, no return regardless".

The set should have been listed with the condition "Not working for parts only"  then you would have been protected.  Since you listed it as used no matter that you wrote "it was not tested, and being sold as is, no returns", ebay's money back guarantee overides your return policy. 

"The buyer asked me if it had been tested before he made an offer on it. I informed him that it had not and that, again, it may or may not be in working order and that it was being sold as-is".

I would have blocked a buyer who asked a question that was already answered in the listing.  Those are exactly the type of people who will file disputes, and you don't need that as a seller. 

"If he doesn't accept the partial refund and forces the return is there any appeal situation for me as the seller"?

It is not likely that you will win an appeal. ebay allows buyers to return for any reason and will not dig into the issue, especially if Not As Described is the reason for a dispute.  If the dispute is still open, you can try calling customer service, and if you get a rep who is US based or speaks clear english, you might get them to review the messages, and close the dispute, but it is a long shot. 

"The interesting thing is that this particular lighting unit requires a rather extensive "re-start" proceedure to bring it back to life if it hasn't been in use for a while. The buyer even made reference to this after he sent the payment and he said that he would use that proceedure to try and restart it. He now says that he did the proceedure and it didn't work and now wants to return it".

To be honest, I would have tried to perform the recharge procedure before listing it. If the unit was an old rechargeable ni-cad system, re-charging the batteries rarely works, if they have been completely discharged, and sat for an extended period of time.  His trying to use the recharge procedure does not constitute "altering" the units, so don't try to use that as a way to get around the dispute.  That procedure was often provided by the Mfrs, of ni-cad systems, and required no altering of the units to accomplish.

---

eBay does NOT allow buyers to return for any reason. That is completely false.

no you won’t win an appeal. just accept the return.

[dcmerc2012]

That whole lecture, yet you didn't even notice that it's not a camera?

First off, the buyer messaged me BEFORE he made an offer and asked if it worked and I replied and told him that I do not know if it works and that if he buys it then he needs to understand that it is as-is and there are no returns.

Bottom line, he asked if it worked... I told him that I don't have a clue if it does and that he can't return it if it does... he made and offer and I sold it to him.

He got it, tried the start up procedure and says it doesn't work. The start up procedure itself can destroy it if not done properly and so for all I know it was perfectly fine until he fried it trying to start it up. This isn't as easy as flipping a switch.

[southern*sweet*tea]

If you sell something as USED, it MUST work as intended.  That is an Ebay condition that cannot be overridden by any statements like "untested".  Had it been listed for parts/non-working, the buyer would have no case. Right now he does. 

Accept the return.

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

---

@dcmerc2012 wrote:

I recently sold a camera lighting set. It is an older set, used and untested. In the description I stated that it hasn't been used in some time and worked fine back then, but that I have NOT tested it and make no promises as to whether or not it works and therefore was "being sold as-is, no return regardless." 

The buyer asked me if it had been tested before he made an offer on it. I informed him that it had not and that, again, it may or may not be in working order and that it was being sold as-is. He made an offer anyway and I accepted.

I sent him the item and now he has initiated a return request because he said it doesn't work. The interesting thing is that this particular lighting unit requires a rather extensive "re-start" proceedure to bring it back to life if it hasn't been in use for a while. The buyer even made reference to this after he sent the payment and he said that he would use that proceedure to try and restart it. He now says that he did the proceedure and it didn't work and now wants to return it.

He paid $185, including shipping and I offered a partial refund of $100. There has been no response as of yet. 

My question is this...

If he doesn't accept the partial refund and forces the return is there any appeal situation for me as the seller? I made it very, very clear that it was being sold as is and that I did not know whether or not it was in working condition. He acknowledged that. He also initiated the start up proceedure for the battery pack, that if not done properly, can fry out the unit. For all I know it was in working order and he fried it trying to restart it?

I really don't think I should have to take this return and I am curious what others think of this situation?

---

You are required to state it's condition and describe it accurately...you said it is untested and you don't know it worked or not. So you did not even do due dilegence to check the item you were selling first.
You have no chance of winning a dispute or an appeal.

[johnrj1226]

In your first posting you state this    " ........ I informed him that it had not and that, again, it may or may not be in working order"  when the buyer inquired if the  unit had been tested.  This would  lead one to believe you do not know if  it works or not.

Now you  state  this  ".....so for all I know it was perfectly fine until he fried it trying to start it ."  

Seems to me these are conflciting statements.  Sounds like an attempt to shift the  blame to the buyer when you don't know if  it was working.

Further  the buyer may have well performed a proper "start-up" or maybe not but you don't really know if they did or not but you  admitted you did not know if it worked or not when you shipped.

Used items  sold on eBay are  expected to be fully functional & operational when shipped unless stated as a "For parts or not working" in the condition field.  Your "as-is" doesn't mean much per eBay-  As-Is condition  means something when a buyer can actually touch and operate something before committing to buy -  like a car or piece of equipment.  But with eBay buyer most generally cannot before they commit to buy.

In a nutshell, suggest you accept the return and refund the buyer and pay for the return shipping.

Read this link:  https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/listings/creating-managing-listings/item-conditions-category?

[thatsallfolks]

---

@dcmerc2012 wrote:
That whole lecture, yet you didn't even notice that it's not a camera?

---

The fact that it's a "camera lighting set", not a "camera", has no bearing on ANYTHING you've been told. Since you decided to focus (no pun intended) on that, instead of on the errors that put you in this situation, I'm led to the conclusion that you really didn't want our feedback; you just wanted people to back you up.

We can't. You're liable for a refund.

[itsjustasprain]

---

@dcmerc2012 wrote: 
He got it, tried the start up procedure and says it doesn't work. The start up procedure itself can destroy it if not done properly and so for all I know it was perfectly fine until he fried it trying to start it up. This isn't as easy as flipping a switch.

---

If proper startup is that critical then I cant believe you didnt test it first. Youre selling it for $100+ with no idea if its working. That will not end well. If you didnt want to test it for fear of having it die on you then that is a big reason why you SHOULD test it - seriously. Its a lot better to have it prove bad before listing than having the buyer discover it instead.