Buyer Finally Returns Item AFTER return case was closed

[camander3]

Over two months ago I sold an item that the buyer requested to return. I approved the return and sent the shipping label. The buyer never returned the item and the case was eventually closed in my favor. Fast forward to now (over two weeks after the case was closed) and the item shows up out of the blue.  I am uncertain as to how to proceed as the case was already closed and I can't find where/how I would issue a refund at this point.

[centexcompsvcs]

Last Edited 11-16-2017 10:46:58 AM

1. Preferred method: Go to original Paypal transaction and click the “Refund” tab. Big advantage is that you will be reimbursed a portion of the PayPal fee.

If ,for some reason, the “Refund” tab is not available, the next method will work:

       2. Go to Paypal account , click Send Money Tab : For Goods and Services to     Buyer’s Paypal address .

Add Message : 

   “ Refund for eBay item #xxxxxxxxxx,original PayPal transaction  # yyyyyyyyyy, dated    zz/00/2017.

  This message gets recorded on the transaction summary page.  It does not go away. PayPal can see it.

  Either way, there will be viewable record within PayPal indicating that the buyer received a refund for the item.  Any attempts by the buyer to initiate a chargeback or a refund case in PayPal will be futile.   In a chargeback scenario, PayPal deals directly with the credit card issuer and can provide them with transactional proof  of a refund payment regardless of how it was acomplished.  

[centexcompsvcs]

1. Preferred method: Go to original Paypal transaction and click the “Refund” tab. Big advantage is that you will be reimbursed a portion of the PayPal fee.

If ,for some reason, the “Refund” tab is not available, the next method will work:

       2. Go to Paypal account , click Send Money Tab : For Goods and Services to     Buyer’s Paypal address .

Add Message : 

   “ Refund for eBay item #xxxxxxxxxx,original PayPal transaction  # yyyyyyyyyy, dated    zz/00/2017.

  This message gets recorded on the transaction summary page.  It does not go away. PayPal can see it.

  Either way, there will be viewable record within PayPal indicating that the buyer received a refund for the item.  Any attempts by the buyer to initiate a chargeback or a refund case in PayPal will be futile.   In a chargeback scenario, PayPal deals directly with the credit card issuer and can provide them with transactional proof  of a refund payment regardless of how it was acomplished.  

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@centexcompsvcs wrote:

Last Edited 11-16-2017 10:46:58 AM

1. Preferred method: Go to original Paypal transaction and click the “Refund” tab. Big advantage is that you will be reimbursed a portion of the PayPal fee.

If ,for some reason, the “Refund” tab is not available, the next method will work:

       2. Go to Paypal account , click Send Money Tab : For Goods and Services to     Buyer’s Paypal address .

Add Message : 

   “ Refund for eBay item #xxxxxxxxxx,original PayPal transaction  # yyyyyyyyyy, dated    zz/00/2017.

  This message gets recorded on the transaction summary page.  It does not go away. PayPal can see it.

  Either way, there will be viewable record within PayPal indicating that the buyer received a refund for the item.  Any attempts by the buyer to initiate a chargeback or a refund case in PayPal will be futile.   In a chargeback scenario, PayPal deals directly with the credit card issuer and can provide them with transactional proof  of a refund payment regardless of how it was acomplished.  

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again paypal won't care.   And credit card company definitely won't care.   A seller could be claiming its a refund when its for an unrelated issue. Along with that paypal offers zero protection if the buyer were to file a snad chargeback with their credit card.  whatever the credit card decides goes and as long as the buyer returned the item the credit card will refund them from that original payment...sometimes theyll do it even if the buyer doesn't return it as most credit card companies only make the item available to the seller. 

[myangelandmyprincess]

1. Preferred method: Go to original Paypal transaction and click the “Refund” tab. Big advantage is that you will be reimbursed a portion of the PayPal fee.

If ,for some reason, the “Refund” tab is not available, the next method will work:

       2. Go to Paypal account , click Send Money Tab : For Goods and Services to     Buyer’s Paypal address .

Add Message : 

   “ Refund for eBay item #xxxxxxxxxx,original PayPal transaction  # yyyyyyyyyy, dated    zz/00/2017.

  This message gets recorded on the transaction summary page.  It does not go away. PayPal can see it.

  Either way, there will be viewable record within PayPal indicating that the buyer received a refund for the item.  Any attempts by the buyer to initiate a chargeback or a refund case in PayPal will be futile.   In a chargeback scenario, PayPal deals directly with the credit card issuer and can provide them with transactional proof  of a refund payment regardless of how it was acomplished.  

[centexcompsvcs]

   While it is true that the debit/credit card issuer determines the final outcome, PayPal’s input is imperative and will always be carefully considered in that final decision.

      PayPal serves as both the intermediary and as the seller’s advocate during a credit card dispute. PayPal does not have to “care” per se, but they do have to do their job and assist the seller with the dispute.  Paypal’s job is to investigate, to compile “internal information” and combine that with information that the seller provides to dispute a chargeback, per credit/debit card guidelines.  That “internal information” would just happen to be the transaction record of the refund sent…no matter which method is used to effect the refund.

“A seller could be claiming its a refund when its for an unrelated issue.”

This is just ludicrous. Why would the seller send the buyer money back in the exact amount of the transaction (minus any applicable shipping/restocking charges ) if it were not a refund? Be logical, the seller clearly is making the buyer whole, not playing games.  

“Along with that paypal offers zero protection if the buyer were to file a snad chargeback with their credit card.” 

Once the buyer receives the refund, he cannot file a SNAD with PayPal. That case was opened and closed via the eBay MBG resolution process. The seller prevailed because buyer failed to return the item within the specified timeframe. That is a matter of record. It cannot be reopened and such a chargeback claim would be fruitless, idiotic as well as fraudulent.  Again, PayPal will be able to confirm to the credit card issuer that buyer/claimant already received a refund for the disputed charge.

“whatever the credit card decides goes and as long as the buyer returned the item the credit card will refund them from that original payment.”.

 I seriously doubt that they will refund the buyer/claimant once PayPal provides them proof that the seller sent buyer a refund and buyer was made whole.

More information on issuing PayPal refunds:

https://developer.paypal.com/docs/classic/admin/refunds/#ui

[myangelandmyprincess]

PayPal does not provide protection for snad chargebacks.  Bottom line.  Policy states it.  I would never take the risk you are suggesting and wouldn't suggest it to anyone else.   There is no reason to do it that way anyhow 

[myangelandmyprincess]

And the only way to legitimently show a refund is to refund the proper way.  

[myangelandmyprincess]

And your link that mentions refunding by send money suggests if if you can't refund the normal way because it's after 180 days.  After that point the buyer can't file with PayPal   And most likely not most ccs. 

[robot-hands]

But you arent worried about the integrity of the buyer?

Block the buyer, refuse the package, do not refund, ignore forever.

[centexcompsvcs]

Take some time and read tis link that I posted, it clearly outlines the   two methods  to  refund on PayPal.  Here it is again: 

https://developer.paypal.com/docs/classic/admin/refunds/#ui

[centexcompsvcs]

 We are talking about this specific case OK, not every chargeback case under the sun.  In this case,  PayPal would advocate  against the chargeback on any grounds: THE BUYER WAS REFUNDED and made whole.    Bottom line is that both  methods of refunding are legitamate and will stand up against any chargeback claim.  

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@centexcompsvcs wrote:

Take some time and read tis link that I posted, it clearly outlines the   two methods  to  refund on PayPal.  Here it is again: 

https://developer.paypal.com/docs/classic/admin/refunds/#ui

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yes I read that link and it suggests using that way IF its past 180 days and you cant refund the usual way.  after 180 days the buyer can't file with paypal and get a double refund anyhow. 

And I am talking about THIS case but there is no reason why it would be treated any differently then any other case though so my advice would be the same in all situations that are under 180 days...not to use the send money to refund.

[xntryk1]

I'm going through a similar scenario at the moment. 15 days after winning an auction, the buyer opened a return case due to a very minor defect that wasn't mentioned in the listing. Of course, eBay automatically approved the return for me (gee, thanks). That gave the buyer 9 days to return the item (which equals "5 business days" according to eBay). On the 10th day, the item still hadn't even been mailed, so I opened a case with eBay to get the return closed. The very next day, eBay decided in my favor and closed the return case. Almost immediately thereafter, I discovered that the item was suddenly on its way back to me (I get notifications from the P.O. about what mail to expect). I imagine the buyer received notification from eBay that I had opened a case, so he remembered he needed to get that item in the mail.

I love robothands' advice "Block the buyer, refuse the package, do not refund, ignore forever." That would work just fine if only eBay were involved. But unfortunately, PayPal is also involved and they've got their 180-day refund policy. I don't see how it's possible to ignore the power that PayPal has to simple lock down the $$ in your PayPal account and refund whenever they feel like it. 

Also, now that eBay has closed the case, they're done with it. The ONLY way to refund the buyer is via PayPal. But here's the kicker, since I'll be refunding via PayPal, eBay WON'T refund their final value fee! I'll still have to send the buyer a full refund, but I'll lose the final value fee (not to mention the postage). And it was a $4500 item, so the final value fee was substantial. Don't suppose anybody knows a way around this nonsense?

[kh-jean]

Hi everyone, 

Due to the length of time that has passed since this thread began, we have locked it from future replies. If this is still an issue that warrants discussion, don't hesitate to begin a new thread here.

Thanks.