15 Years on eBay - I need to understand what happened on my first buyer dispute - horrible call

[thegaragesaleinc]

I won't bore you with all the details, but here is the meat of it.

I sold a very collectible factory new sealed book for $150.  Buyer receives, I ask him to confirm everything and let PayPal know (to confirm delivery and condition) to release funds (another debacle).  He replies back with an email praising and raving about the book!  "Excellent condition, wow, better than described, packed well, perfect"

The next day he offers $30 to me to return the book, he bought by mistake, or he will tell PayPal it's "not as described".  I don't threaten lightly, and I have his email already, so I tell him, no, I refuse his offer.  He opens claim with PayPal.  I upload everything, pics of the book, packing details, the email with headers, his other emails.  Very cut to dry to anyone with say a 3rd grade understanding.  I call yesterday, because PayPal is badgering me to upload funds to cover the negative hold balance (even though his funds have never been received by me - also pending withdrawal verification), and I speak to disputes.  

I had offered an exchange on the book and asked for pictures, because at the end of one of the emails, the buyer says he opened the book.  Which will destroy the value (of it being sealed).  I was told that the buyer had not responded to anything yet, but no decision would be made without a reply and pictures, evidence, etc.

Overnight, the buyer escalated the claim, without ever uploading proof, and the claim is found in his favor!!!!?!?!?

I am floored.  What recourse do I have as a seller if the item is returned damaged?  An appeal they say.  After the case is closed and this buyer has his money back, and I am damaged.  He will probably blast me with a negative feedback too, which will be my first negative in 15 years.  Then at that point they will review what I have provided for evidence?  

I feel I am fairly intelligent.  I have never had a chargeback with PayPal, ever.  I take items back, replace them, even lose money to keep my feedback positive.  It's a cost of doing business.  Fraud however is not.  I am an Army vet, and it just makes me crazy to think this is actually happening as we speak.  That this punk buyer can scam me!!!  I have to just bend over??

I asked them this morning, hey I want a new Hublot or Rolex watch, maybe I will find one that is worth, $20,000.  I'll buy it, and send back a box of rocks or a note inside that says "hahahahaha" and I will open a claim that says "not as described", so I can be like all these buyers that ruin our system.  At least let us leave negative feedback, or a mark that shows he returned or disputed a transaction.  Would you allow a buyer with a high return or dispute rate?  No.  Thats the answer folks.

[charity_scents]

https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp/article/can-i-appeal-paypal%E2%80%99s-decision-on-my-claim-faq20...

Appeal on paypal
Contact ebay ask for Trust & Safety department. 

Add buyer to BBL

[candiesduds]

You typically cannot fight returns until the item has actually been returned. The same system applies for Ebay. I am curious though why they went directly to Paypal rather then opening a return request via Ebay? They've likely abused the Ebay MBG and are no longer covered maybe? Or simply aren't aware of the Ebay MBG, who knows.

I personally have never had a case via Paypal as a buyer or a seller, but I thought via Paypal the buyer had to pay to return the item? Did you refuse the return altogether? I would contact Paypal and actually speak with someone having them pay close attention to where the buyer received the item exactly as described and then threatened to abuse return policies if they didn't get their way. I don't blame you for not wanting to accept it back opened, especially so when it massively decreases the value.

You need to make sure to add this buyer to your Blocked Bidder List on Ebay, I would even go as far as to report them for abusing policies. Or at the very least contact Ebay and make them aware as they can see the message. This type of behavior is unfair to sellers and should never be permitted. Hopefully you win the appeal on Paypal, although they'll still refund the buyer but maybe out of their own pocket. It certainly doesn't teach the buyer any type of lesson or hold them accountable. They just take that bad behavior on to the next unsuspecting seller and the pattern continues.

[kensgiftshop]

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@charity_scents wrote:

https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp/article/can-i-appeal-paypal%E2%80%99s-decision-on-my-claim-faq20...

Appeal on paypal
Contact ebay ask for Trust & Safety department. 

Add buyer to BBL

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Since the case was opened on Pay Pal, there's no reason to contact Ebay, because they can't do anything.

[eunster1313]

Buyer receives, I ask him to confirm everything and let PayPal know

(to confirm delivery and condition) to release funds (another debacle).

I recommend you don't do that again. Its not necessary, and you may
have put Ideas in your buyers head that they didn't have before you
sent that message.

[steve6179]

You're a dreamer - talking to Paypal does exactly zero for sellers. The buyer can claim anything they want to, as obvious as their fraud may be, and Paypal sides with them. All Paypal goes by is whether or not an item was shipped and received. They consider that the end of any "investigation", and is actually all the "investigating" they do. Talking to them on the phone gets a seller nowhere.

[grayirongolf]

It's the consumer protection laws. eBay nor Paypal can win a dispute against the credit card companies.   Credit card companies will protect their clients every time.   If you play your "Cards" right, everything can be free at the Sellers expense.     This is why eBay places sole responsibility on the sellers. eBay doesn't want to be involved in a system thats rigged & chalked full of losses. 

[leavingheresoon]

Well, that loss is bad enough, but I lost almost a thousand dollars to a crook, and now he has the item and the money. It just ain't worth it. The stress and anger over such issues is greater than the financial loss. Time to move on, or move out. I'm moving out. Already closed my PP account. Have to wait a while before feebay will allow me to close that account. Never again!  

[jvsevuer0]

Actually, fraud is a cost of doing business.