USPS Insurance claim denied, buyer lied, will not surrender item, already paid out $750 per eBay

[lolajulio]

Help!

We have been selling on eBay for years. This is only our second insurance claim and we are frustrated. Hopefully someone can guide us in the right direction.

Here is a short version of what has happened: We sold an item for $750. Shipped it Priority insured. When the buyer opened it, it was damaged. He opened an eBay return case for the item. We messaged him not to ship the item back, but to keep it. (shipping it back would void the insurance claim). We opened an USPS insurance claim. 

Both parties received letters from USPS to bring the item and packaging in for inspection. The buyer brought what was requested, and the letter, to his post office. He messaged back "I done my part hope to see a refund soon".

He then escalated his claim. We refunded the buyer so we would not get dinged.  Our insurance claim was denied, as was our first appeal: "Our records indicate that the package has not been presented for inspection".

We called the Postmaster in his town. He remembered the buyer vividly. The buyer failed to tell us that during his visit to the Post Office, The Postmaster told the buyer that the broken item and packaging had to be surrendered to the PO, in order for the claim to be processed.  Buyer refused to leave the broken items, and went as far as to tell the Postmaster that he wanted to try and repair the item. When the buyer escalated his claim to get refunded, he knew that our claim would be denied due to his actions.

Is this fair? Heck no! We are out $750. We did all that we could do on our end. We have messaged the buyer, who claims he was never asked to leave the item, and now he claims he threw the broken pieces away. We have one more appeal through USPS. We have an eMail from the Postmaster concerning the conversation between himself and the buyer. Can eBay step in?

We've never had to use the Resolution Center, or seller protection. 

We've read comments by trinton@ebay, maybe he can help! 

[justagirl12]

Well then what’s the point of purchasing the insurance. 95% of buyers aren’t honest and will do just as her buyer did. And how do you know that shipping it back voids the USPS insurance? Something not right there. 

[missjen831]

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@monster-deals wrote:

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@missjen831 wrote:

You probably could have avoided this if you had refunded the buyer promptly. I can absolutely see why he wouldn’t surrender the item—he didn’t have his refund and he may have been required to return the item in order to get a refund if you didn’t voluntarily issue the refund. If you didn’t refund him and he surrender the item, he wouldn’t have gotten a forced refund from eBay or PayPal if he couldn’t return the item to you. He shouldn’t have had to escalate his request, you should have refunded him promptly.

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If the buyer had withheld the refund and contacted a CSR to put the case on hold the outcome would have been much different.

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That’s actually not how it works but I am sure you will just say you’ve experienced differently. Customer service doesn’t put these kind of cases on hold. The seller is expected to refund the buyer and deal with the insurance claim. The buyer gets a refund whether the insurance claim pays out or not. That’s why they don’t put the case on hold. The seller either has to refund the buyer and file the insurance claim, or accept the return and refund when they get the item back.

[justagirl12]

Exactly! As long as one of the parties brought the item into the USPS, the seller...who purchased the insurance...would be able to make a successful claim with the USPS. The buyer already stated it arrived damaged.

[justagirl12]

From the USPS website:

Proof of Damage

Photos that clearly show the extent of damage will help with your case. For damaged claims, you’ll also need to provide an estimate of the repair costs from a reputable dealer.

Did the buyer send you pictures? If so, there’s your proof for the USPS.

[justagirl12]

You may have to bring the damaged item to the post office.

Proof of Damage

Photos that clearly show the extent of damage will help with your case. For damaged claims, you’ll also need to provide an estimate of the repair costs from a reputable dealer.

If you received something damaged, please hang onto the original packaging and the damaged item until your claim is settled. You may be asked to take them to your local Post Office™ for inspection later. Please do not reship the package.

[lolajulio]

The buyer sent pictures 4 days after he opened his return claim on eBay. He said he was having trouble uploading or something. He was also sending messages through the return claim AND through regular messages, which I thought seemed weird. I could not open my USPS claim without pics. A claim of this large amount needs to be brought in, in person, and usually surrendered to the PO.
Again, we are new to this claim stuff. Our only other claim was for $159 and as soon as pics were sent in we got paid.

[fab_finds4u]

I'm not jen but USPS says not to return it.
Their exact words- If you received something damaged, please hang onto the original packaging and the damaged item until your claim is settled. You may be asked to take them to your local Post Office™ for inspection later. Please do not reship the package.
https://www.usps.com/help/claims.htm

Insurance should basically be in case the item gets lost and tracking never shows delivered. Because usually insurance is denied for broken items. They'll say insufficient packaging. If they see PAPER as packing they might deny the claim. If it's fragile or heavy and it's not double boxed they can deny the claim. Since they are the ones deciding if they have to pay or not, what are the chances they'll try to get out of paying by saying insufficient packaging? If it involves broken glass they can deny it if the sender didn't pay for special handling. You have to pack it so you can throw it down a flight of stairs and it didn't break.

[justagirl12]

Then eBay needs to require the buyer to take the item to USPS before they allow a refund. Otherwise, most buyers will do just as op’s buyer did. 

[justagirl12]

Actually, with all the buyers claiming damage on eBay, they should require every item to be insured and buyer to bring damaged item to PO and then P.O. could pay all these claims and buye AND seller would be happy. No?

[Anonymous]

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@missjen831 wrote:

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@lolajulio wrote:
Our first response to him was we will refund in full, and do not return the item. A return would have voided the insurance claim.
The buyer was in no hurry to send us pics of the damaged item and crushed box. He also replied he was patient with the refund process. He was patient until he learned he couldn't get a refund without surrendering the item. He would have gotten a receipt from the PO as proof. We refunded him within eBay time frame, the funds transfer was in process when he opened his case, which was promptly closed without any strikes against us.

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He wasn’t required to surrender the item in order to get a refund. You should have refunded him as soon as you got the pictures. That’s where you went wrong here. If you had refunded him and he then refused to cooperate with the insurance claim & caused it to be denied , you may have had recourse through eBay-if you refund the buyer and your insurance claim is denied because the buyer didn’t cooperate with it, eBay has certain protections available to you.

i am not sure if eBay can or will offer you any protection in this situation since you didn’t initially refund the buyer, you withheld his refund & the buyer escalated the case but lets see if Trinton can help. @Anonymous can you please help this seller out? Thank you!

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Hi @missjen831, thank you for grabbing my attention on this! I've had this situation reviewed and it looks like since it has been more than 30 days since the case was closed our options are limited. We do need to have an appeal open within 30 days to explore options - I understand that normally courier investigations for insurance can take a bit longer than 30 days, but we just have to have the appeal begun during that time and can wait for additional details to come through with the investigation's completion.

At this time, it does look like we do not have next steps to pursue, @lolajulio, I know this may not have been the answer you were hoping for and can only recommend that you contact Customer Service in the future should you run into a similar situation.

[lolajulio]

From what the Postmaster said in his email, we would have had the claim ok'd of the buyer would have left the item at the PO. If the PO is going to fork out that amount of $$$ for a claim they want something in return. As he stated on the phone, the parts may have a minimal value, so everything has to be handed over to the PO.

[lolajulio]

trinton@ebay , Thank you for your response. Please, if you could clarify a few things for us. So the time that we spent waiting for the PO, thinking they were holding the process up, believing everything that our buyer said, we lost our chance to appeal anything?
We read in another case you helped on, something like where the PO attempted to deny a claim due to buyer non-cooperation, and you(or the seller) told USPS that their insurance was a contract with the seller and the buyer, and they could not penalize their customer(the seller) for the inaction of a third party. Does that ring a bell?
Again , we re new to insurance claims. Thanks for your time

[tdebuys]

ebay needs to require buyers to take pictures and get a inspection report on damaged goods from buyer's local P.O. that can be sent to the seller before the seller is required to refund the buyer.  What the PO does with the damaged goods is thier concern.  Sellers should have 3 business days to refund the buyer once the report is rec'd from the buyer and no esculations nor dings should happen during this three day period.

  This would present the damage facts to the PO and free the buyer from any further responsibility for the damaged goods.   When and how the Seller files his claim with the PO is now up to him and the buyer is no longer involved.

At that point the facts and the settlement of the claim lies squarely between the Seller and the P.O. where it belongs.

[ed8108]

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@lolajulio wrote:
From what the Postmaster said in his email, we would have had the claim ok'd of the buyer would have left the item at the PO. If the PO is going to fork out that amount of $$$ for a claim they want something in return. As he stated on the phone, the parts may have a minimal value, so everything has to be handed over to the PO.

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There are underlying reasons the post office may require the surrender of a particular item damaged in transit.

The buyer stated he would on his own initiative and motion attempt to reglue the pieces, that appears to say the item can be repaired and has monetary value.

The buyer doesn't care if failure to surrender the item may result in a denial of the seller's insurance claim.

The buyer then conveniently decides without ever consulting the seller, without approval of the seller, to supposedly simply discard the damaged item.  WHY is that ?

[myescape]

On ebay insurance protects the seller and buyers are not required to participate in that process at all.So your buyer went beyond what ebay requires.It may not be "fair"but that is policy.In fact in the you have been refunded if return was not required buyer is basically told they can keep the item