USPS Cost Adjustment is out of control

[jbsound8o2e]

I have been selling on eBay for several years and have never had a single USPS cost adjustment. Now, in a span of two weeks I have had three. All three have been small flat rate boxes where the post office says the service on label was USPS Priority Mail Small Flat Rate Box but the actual service was USPS Priority Mail Service.

First of all, I don't use priority mail that often as I sell small stuff that usually goes first class, so I remember each of the three small flat rate boxes I sent out recently. It is hard to screw up a flat rate box. None of the packages were over a couple of pounds, so I was well within the weight limit for a small flat rate box. The only error I can think of is I put a flat rate label on one of my boxes. I didn't think I did that on the first package, and I know for a fact that I didn't do it on the second two.

After the first email stating I had automatically been charged an adjustment, I contact the post office and filed an appeal. I learned they actually take pictures of each package and would be able to see if I had made a mistake. A couple of days ago I got notification that my money the automatically took from my account had been refunded, so I guess I hadn't made a mistake after all. I will be filing a claim again on the second two packages because I am 100% sure I used small flat rate postage and packages on both of them.

It is just too coincidental that after years of not having this problem, I have had three in such a short span, all on the same kind of shipments. In fact, I am pretty sure I have only had three small flat rate boxes sent out over the last few weeks and 100% of them have been adjusted. My question to the community is are any of you having this issue or is it just me? Thanks in advance for any feedback or ideas.

[buyselljack2016]

Small flat rate should end 003.

The 022 is the box shaped the same, but a bit larger that was mentioned earlier in the thread.

[buyselljack2016]

[a_c_green]

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@buyselljack2016 wrote:

Small flat rate should end 003.

The 022 is the box shaped the same, but a bit larger that was mentioned earlier in the thread.

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Ayup. The 003 box requires the Flat Rate Small label; the 022 box uses the regular weight-/zone-based Priority Mail label. I'm not sure how accurate that rep's story is about the "misprinted" run of boxes, but the two of them side-by-side are pretty darn similar anyway. I always have to squint carefully to be sure I'm pulling the one I intend to use from my basement supply.

[buyselljack2016]

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@a_c_green wrote:

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@buyselljack2016 wrote:

Small flat rate should end 003.

The 022 is the box shaped the same, but a bit larger that was mentioned earlier in the thread.

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Ayup. The 003 box requires the Flat Rate Small label; the 022 box uses the regular weight-/zone-based Priority Mail label. I'm not sure how accurate that rep's story is about the "misprinted" run of boxes, but the two of them side-by-side are pretty darn similar anyway. I always have to squint carefully to be sure I'm pulling the one I intend to use from my basement supply.

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Would make more sense just to eliminate one of them(the smaller one)

As you say, almost the same size.  No need to be producing 2 boxes so close in size when one can so easily be mistaken for the other except for the #, and the  the "small flat rate" printed on one.

[jbsound8o2e]

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@a_c_green wrote:

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@buyselljack2016 wrote:

Small flat rate should end 003.

The 022 is the box shaped the same, but a bit larger that was mentioned earlier in the thread.

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Ayup. The 003 box requires the Flat Rate Small label; the 022 box uses the regular weight-/zone-based Priority Mail label. I'm not sure how accurate that rep's story is about the "misprinted" run of boxes, but the two of them side-by-side are pretty darn similar anyway. I always have to squint carefully to be sure I'm pulling the one I intend to use from my basement supply.

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The rep's story was definitely accurate...here is a pic of a box I just dug out of my recycle bin. Like I said, check your boxes!

[berserkerplanet]

I can't believe their QC is that sloppy. Well, I guess maybe I can. That fail does make sense in light of the fact that there seemed to an inordinate number of SMFB/PM APV issues here.

A interesting side note to this:
your information is pretty conclusive proof that USPS is actually scanning those barcodes (at least the flat rate ones) and factoring them into the determinations - not just some sort of size/ shape and maybe optical recognition (color, shape).

Unclear if they scan and use the non-flat rate barcodes though, but maybe they do to sieve out flat rate, Parcel Select, Media Mail, FCP too.

flat rate label on a box with a flat rate barcode = ok (1)
flat rate label on a box with a regular priority barcode = braaap!
flat rate label on a box with no barcode = braaap!

regular priority label on a box with a flat rate barcode = braaap!
regular priority label on a box with a regular priority barcode = ok (2)
regular priority label on a box with no barcode = ok (2)

MM or PS or FCP label on a box with a flat rate barcode = braaap!
MM or PS or FCP label on a box with a regular priority barcode = braaap!
MM or PS or FCP label on a box with no barcode = ok (but check weight and dimensions for correct postage and limits)

(1) check weight to be sure under limits, Check dimensions to be sure they match that flat rate barcode
(2) check weight to be sure under limits and proper postage, check dimensions to be sure they are under that service's limits, for dimensional weight calcs, and to be sure they match any USPS box barcode.
(3) check weight to be sure under limits and proper postage, check dimensions to be sure they are under that service's limits.

Not sure how many of those checks are actually performed, but from this thread we do know the flat rates box barcodes are checked against the labels data, and from other threads can maybe assume the Priority Mail Box barcodes are checked because think maybe we've seen complaints of APV charges for FCP postage on priority boxes under 1lb?

Would be an interesting experiment to transfer a flat rate barcode to a regular priority box and see if APV catches it - if it did that would mean they are also using optical recognition (AI says that ain't a flat rate box based on color, size, and shape) or just matching the dimensions ("those dimensions are for a PM 1095 box, not a PM SFRB - braap! and call the postal police")
Unfortunately, probably technically a Federal offense.

I suspect/hope they are doing all/some of the above because all it takes is code as they already have the size data from conveyor scans, and I'm sure somebody at USPS already thought about what I just speculated and so did the postage scammers. I'd ask USPS for clarification if it weren't a total waste of time (based on my last attempt to get info and the resulting total cluelessness of their responders via email), so let's call this a zero day exploit if USPS didn't think about it when they designed the APV system

[ste-9405]

Aside, but still about boxes:

1. Can the eBay-issued USPS Priority RETURN SERVICE labels be used on ANY Priority box?

2. Can the eBay-issued USPS First-Class RETURN SERVICE labels be used on ANY Priority box?

[a_c_green]

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@jbsound8o2e wrote:
The rep's story was definitely accurate...here is a pic of a box I just dug out of my recycle bin. Like I said, check your boxes!

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Ouch. Yup, no doubt about that. Thanks for posting the photo. (Maybe sell it here as a collector's item? )

[fenixdog]

Well I just got off the telephone with USPS Customer Care about the cost adjustment eBay emailed me today. The email stated my purchased service was for a Small Flate Box but service Used was Medium Flat Rate Box. The postal rep knew immediately before I finished telling my issue. She said it was something eBay had done if you used Small Flat Rate Box and the USPS phone had been ringing off the hook.  I was told the adjustment would be reversed by Friday. I really don’t understand how eBay has erred, was it some coding on the postage I purchased through eBay with wrong coding? I am concerned if I use Small Flat Rate Box again.

[berserkerplanet]

See posts 14, 16,17, and 18 above.

Apparently , wrong barcodes (barcodes for PM 1096L NON Flat Rate boxes) got printed on some SFRBs, and USPS APV claimed that SFRB postage was on zoned Priority boxes as a result. (Labels were SFRB postage, boxes were SFRBs, but scanners read the boxes as 1096Ls)

Flat Rate SFRB barcode should end in 003
Zoned PM 1096L barcode should end in 022

My new stock of both SFRBs and 1096Ls have correct barcodes, but they are older - at least a year or more since I ordered and have Aug 2015 and July 2013 dates in the info on them respectively. What is interesting is that the SFRB shown in post 20 with the wrong 022 number on it shows a date of April 2015.

Whether OP's older boxes are "newer" (as in ordered more recently) than mine is unknown. One theory might be that the mfg messed up the printing sometime back (before my batch), mfg or USPS set the batch aside instead of destroying it, and somebody screwed up and shipped out the bad batch more recently.

Or, it's just that there was a bad, uncaught batch back then, OP has an older batch, it's only that batch, and most of those older ones were used up before APV started and began catching them based on barcode.


Your situation is slightly different involving USPS claims of Med Flat Rate boxes (MFRBs) being used.

Wonder if multiple incorrect barcodes were printed on various batches of SFRB's?

What is the barcode number on the SFRBs you have?

[fenixdog]

I have no idea the box code I used because I had picked up SFR boxes several times from the post office and had them in my pile of boxes. Currently all my SFR boxes end in 03. But one thing I am 100% sure about is “I used a Small Flat Rate box”.  USPS was extremely nice when I called them and seemed well aware of the problem. I just hope they credit my PayPal account, not because of the money, $5.14, but I need to have confidence restored in the one operation that I thought worked without issue.  I have becomes so disenchanted with selling on eBay, no matter how hard I try, there is the constant reminder, I am the little guy and really not needed.

[berserkerplanet]

Unfortunate that you can't provide information that might help determine if there is something else afoot here, but maybe someone else who has run into your same issue (SFRB claimed to be MFRB) does have a pile of them and can take a look.

Assuming your problem was caused by incorrect barcodes, it wasn't the APV system, eBay, or PayPal failing here. APV did exactly what it was designed and programmed to do. The incorrect barcodes threw a monkey wrench the designers never would have needed to consider as a scenario into the system, and it chugged along doing what it was programmed to do.

USPS is of course at fault for this for shipping boxes with wrong barcodes, but it was the box mfg, and ultimately the USPS supply dept that screwed up, not the APV system.

IF your particular issue is not a barcoding error then something else is going on which could be APV software issues or some other cause. You re not the only one with the SFRB→MFRB problem, so it appears it is systemic somehow.

More data is needed to suss this out and determine if only really old SFRBs have the incorrect 1096L barcode, and if some of them also have a MFRB barcode.

I don't have a barcode scanner, but can maybe image/software decode the barcodes on the boxes I have (and maybe from the images posted here) to see what might be seen there (like if the barcodes match the visible numbers, etc)

Some Medium Flat Rate Box barcodes numbers for boxes I have (may be older):

PS01111032303 July 2013  FRB-1 (toploader)

PS0001100001 July 2013 FRB-2 (sideloader)

[berserkerplanet]

Correction:

PS0001100001 July 2013 FRB-2 (sideloader)
should be
PS00011000001 July 2013 FRB-2 (sideloader)

(dropped one of the zeros near the end when I posted)

[berserkerplanet]

Ran the barcode from OP's image of the SFRB with the wrong 022 barcode number through a barcode decoder (too lazy to manually decode the barcodes), and the barcode does indeed contain precisely PS00010000022 which matches the human readable number on the box, but is for a PM 1096L box not a SFRB.

Checked the SFRBs, 1096Ls, MFRB-1, and MFRB-2 barcodes also - they all match.

So at least we know the barcodes are supposed to contain only the human readable number, which they do, and that even on the SFRBs with the wrong number the barcodes match the visible numbers.


I'm still curious about:
Are these older boxes of which only a few are still around (most were used before APV kicked in a year and a half ago)?

Is the same thing going on with the posters that are getting dinged for using SFRB labels on what APV claims were MFRBs? Is there yet another unseen so far but flagged by APV variant of a bad SFRB barcode floating around?

(need one of the SFRB→MFRB APV victims to post the barcode number from one of their SFRBs to check.)

SFRB should have PS00011000003 number but has a MFRB-2 PS00011000001 or MFRB-1 PS01111032303 number instead?

[johnrj1226]

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@a_c_green wrote:

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@buyselljack2016 wrote:

Small flat rate should end 003.

The 022 is the box shaped the same, but a bit larger that was mentioned earlier in the thread.

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Ayup. The 003 box requires the Flat Rate Small label; the 022 box uses the regular weight-/zone-based Priority Mail label. I'm not sure how accurate that rep's story is about the "misprinted" run of boxes, but the two of them side-by-side are pretty darn similar anyway. I always have to squint carefully to be sure I'm pulling the one I intend to use from my basement supply.

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I used the 022 box (aka 1096L) for  mailing recently.  Handed off package to a desk clerk and they (two long time 20+ years employees - one my  neighbor)  insisted that I should have should  have bought a small flat rate  label vs the std priority label.  I said they were wrong and they  got  all  upset.  Got the  post master out and he straightened his employees out and apologized to me.

What  was really  crazy  is the  eBay label shipping cost was the same for  both  labels (SFR & Std Priority) but needed the  larger box for this shipment.

Live & Learn