Listing will not accept Fedex Smartpost shipping option - states oversize which is not correct

[mtnflyer44]

Listed two rc model airplanes today with the following issue:

First kit dim 29 x 17 x 7 = 77 inches - accepted the Fedex Smartpost option

Second kit dim 36 x 13 x 8 = 78 inches - rejected the Fedex Smartpost option

Does this indicate a programming issue with Ebay?

Called into customer service had a horrible experience with an individual that had no knowledge about length and girt.  She said the second package was too big for Fedex Smartpost and she calculated the length and girth to be: lenght plus 2 times width plus two times height AND she stated I had to add the width  again.  Her total =  91 inches.  I asked to speak to a supervisor but was told none were available.  My career was 46 years as VP transportation for Levi Strauss and retired from Fedex.   Is there another way to contact some one a Ebay other than random customer service clerks?

[berserkerplanet · Accepted solution]

Your second package has a dimension greater than 34" and incurs the non-machinable surcharge.

I would guess that the simplistic eBay FedEx Smartpost mailing label interface can't handle that complication and rejects it with a generic "oversized" error message.

IF that is the case there is no fix - you simply can't print Smartpost labels through eBay for such shipments until the day that eBay programmers make that label flow more robust.

The above snippet is from:

http://images.fedex.com/us/smartpostguide/pdf/FXSP_FeesOtherShipInfo_2017.pdf

I've seen posts around these forums in the past indicating that it MAY  be possible to get FedEx to allow you to access Smartpost directly through your FedEx account. You would need to search for those threads here for further info, and/or call FedEx and discuss it with an account specialist.

[hockeycub]

According to the ebay shipping help section as well as the FedEx website, the maximum dimensions for SmartPost delivery is 60 inch length and 130 total inches (L+2W+2H).

Not sure what dimensions the ebay programmers have plugged in but clearly this needs to be fixed.  Without smartpost, sending bulky items coast to coast is cost prohibitive.

Hopefully this can be addressed.  If it is a matter of machinability, it seems like adding a line or two of coding would take care of this.

[the_fancy_fox]

I had a lengthy post a while back where I showed screenshot by screenshot this was a problem. I was told various things as to why and I proved them all bogus. ( some explanations were as bad as it was because I excluded international sales and that's why dimensions over 79" would not display!)

ebay will not (or didn't at that time) accept or display in a listing any package with a total dimension over 79".  

Federal express doesn't care what the eBay label says as they bill later after they scan your package dimensions, unlike usps. So unlike usps, if you make a mistake on weight or dimensions on a label it doesn't matter you do not need to void it (and there is no way to void it.  You will not charged if you don't use it BUT eBay will use that tracking number and ding you if it's late), federal express will bill for the parcel as to what it really is.

How I get around it is to mock up a federal express shipping label in eBay to a destination furthest from me (using print another label from a completed sale. Just DONT print the label).  Since I am on the west coast I use a sale to the east coast. I change the shipping label to federal express and plug in my actual dimensions. That will give you the real cost or close to it.

Then I change the total dimension back to 79" total and  now you know the difference in cost between what the eBay listing will display and what the cost should be. Start increasing the weight till the costs come to about where they'd are supposed to be.

so then you know what weight to increase your package to keeping the dimension under 79" and coming out close to actual costs It important to understand fedx oversized costs and other fees by going to their website and seeing if they apply.

Its a royal pain but it works it you want to use calculated shipping. On some big parcels it makes a very attractive overall price to buyers living in and in nearby states. Further away not so much. Over time I have developed a chart that makes it easier for me to get the numbers right and I come pretty close on costs.

Or go to flat rate as it's easier (but using the most expensive rate isn't a deal most buyers are looking for.) Or get your own fedx account and link to eBay (you will have to talk to a account rep to set up Smartpost) or use an outside service that has their programming correct.

[berserkerplanet]

The document I referenced is the 2017 FedEx Smartpost Terms&Conditions and is the only current information I have found on the FedEx website.

There are some documents from 2010 that reference the 60" max length for a Smartpost package, and the FedEx Shipping FAQ on the eBay site specifies that also (I have zero confidence in any information on ebay pages - could be outdated or just wrong).

You do bring up a good point though.

I had never really considered a max length for Smartpost because it wasn't covered in the T&C doc, was a non-issue for me, and would have assumed it was same as FedEx Ground at less than 108".

Please show me where exactly it is officially stated at FedEx that SmartPost max length is 60" so that I can add the document to my references.

[berserkerplanet]

Looking at this resurrected thread and my original response to the OP I see my response was right for the wrong reason. I missed the first word "listed" and assumed OP was talking about printing Smartpost shipping labels using the eBay label flow.

Played with a sell similar and couldn't get anything to blow up, but did not actually go live and try to submit the test listing. When I tried 36" x 20" x 12" for the package dimensions on the advance listing form nothing happened (no javascript watchdogs threw any errors).

Then I found Foxy's post from Sept 2016 in the PS forum (where eBay says they fixed it. Twice. 🙂

______________________________________

I now think I know what happened. Length+girth>79" was not/is not the problem, and it isn't fixed.

Revised one of my listings that already had FedEx Ground, added Smartpost as a 2nd shipping option and changed the dimensions:

• at 20x16x13 (78" L+G)  - was fine. Prices showed for both on shipping tab
• at 24x16x13 (82" L+G)  - was again fine.

Removed FedEx Ground leaving Smartpost as only option (in case having multiple options was preventing issue from showing):

• at 24x16x13 (82" L+G)  -  was again fine
• at 36x10x6  (68" L+G)  - threw an error on listing form when tried to submit (see below)
• at 36x10x13 (82" L+G)  - threw an error on listing form when tried to submit (see below)

When I bumped the dimensions to 36" x 10" x 6"  and then 36" x 10" x 13",  the 36" longest length in both cases put it in the non-machinable (NM) realm. In the second case, it had the same total 82" L+girth as the previous test, but now has a dim over 34", and the non-machinable surcharge kicks in (see my post above from Feb 2017 for the Smartpost surcharges/criteria).

If eBay did fix anything back in Sept 2016, they either broke something else or didn't fix another bug where the listing logic is not handling non-machinable issues.

That would have caused OPs problem - his 36" length on the second package exceeds the allowable 34" max length before a Smartpost non-machinable surcharge kicks in (that eBay isn't handling).

NM Criterion #2 (>17")

Another NM pkg test to confirm. If we choose dimensions to cause the 2nd non-machinable surcharge criterion (2nd longest side > 17") to kick in instead of the 1st criterion and it fails, then it looks likely that NM is the problem. Off to revise again........

As soon as I changed the 36" dim to 20"  on the listing form the red warning message disappeared (javascript watchdog). Changed dims to 20" x 18" x 6" (68" L+G) and it accepted the revision, but......

It didn't throw an error on the listing form this time, but shipping on the actual listing is hosed.

That was your problem Foxy. In your 9/2016 post you had 22" x 12" x 20" as dimensions in your first screenshot. That 20" second-longest-side triggers the 2nd non-machinable criterion and you got the same live listing shipping fail I did above in the test. (There was another screen shot of a 20x20x12 package - that one should have failed based on criterion #2 also)

Looks like there's a lot of bad coding involving the FedEx Smartpost non-machinable surcharges.

At least in my one test case, the listing form caught a condition where the first non-machinable criterion is matched (longest side > 34"), but the client side javascript daemons don't catch it until an attempt to submit the listing is made (or the error is being caught server side.) This is fail. If the daemons can see me changing the dim to an acceptable value after the error has occured, they should be able to flag it as invalid as it is being entered the first time. Bad code. Bad code.

In the case of the second non-machinable criterion (second side > 17"), the listing form isn't catching it, but the live listing is broken. Again, Bad code.

The eBay label flow IS programmed correctly to assess the non-machinable surcharge when dimensions triggering it (longest side > 34" or second side > 17") are entered on the shipping label page, but in light of this listing snafu, there would never be any way to actually get correct info to automatically populate the shipping label form from a listing.

That would require a workaround like you described where benign dimensions are picked and the weight fudged to have the buyer charged correctly, and then the offending dimensions and weight changed on the label form to make the label right for FedEx billing.

NM Criterion #3 (>35 pounds)

Since my listing was already buggered up, I looked at the third non-machinable criterion too - weight exceeding 35 pounds. I put the dims back to my 18x16x13 (76" L+G), but bumped the weight to 40 pounds. No errors, and no issues on the live listing. The amounts shown for Z2 and Z8 seem to check out against the eBay online calc http://www.ebay.com/shp/Calculator , and manual calcs using the Smartpost rate tables.

For Z2: listing quotes $25

Table Base rate is $22 -->  $22 - 66¢  (3% discount off base rate)  = $21.34

$21.34 + $2.75 (Non-Machinable surcharge)  = $24.09

$24.09 + 96¢  (4% Fuel SC) =  $25.05 (darn close to listing quote within discount rounding error*)

*actual discount is probably 3.3% which eBay displays rounded down to 3%

For Z8:  listing quotes $66.83

Table Base rate is $63.59 -->  $63.59 - $1.91  (3% discount off base rate)  = $61.68

$61.68 + $2.75 (Non-Machinable surcharge)  = $64.43

$64.43 + $2.58  (4% Fuel SC) =  $67.01 (darn close to listing quote within discount rounding error*)

*actual discount is probably 3.3% which eBay displays rounded down to 3%

It appears that the 3rd non-machinable criterion (>35 pounds) IS being handled

NM Criterion #4 (cylidrical pkg)

The 4th criterion: "item packaged in a cylidrical tube" can not be addressed by the listing form or the label flow, and it's on to the seller/shipper to know this, realize it will be upcharged with a non-machinable surcharge after the fact when FedEx bills eBay, add a handling fee to cover the surcharge, and not scream "fraud", ripoff", "scam", "hidden charges" (which it ain't 'cause it's in the T&C agreed to when label is created)

Something like a 24" long 4" dia drafting tube would incur that surcharge. I presume because it would roll off the scale at FedEx/Kinkos, roll off conveyors, roll under equipment, or roll out of trucks, and is generally a pita for FedEx.

A possible workaround might be to fudge the dimensions (make one over 34" or second over 17") and force the surcharge that way (a pkg only incurs one NM surcharge, so whether it's Criterion 1, ,2,3, or 4 that triggers it shouldn't matter as long as some thought is put into it*. If your cylindrical package is already over 34" long this criterion doesn't matter. (the possible workaround also assumes/requires that the NM problem here gets fixed)

 *remember, Smartpost doesn't care about dimensional weight, just baloon or oversized. So the dimension fudging would have to be carefully done to avoid pushing it into those regions.

___________________________________________

Summary:

• This is a FedEx non-machinable problem that the eBay listing form isn't handling correctly
• The listing form recognizes the first NM criterion (>34"),  but fails on it instead of dealing with it (the shipping calc should add the $2.75 surcharge to shipping shown/charged to buyers)
• The listing form fails to recognize the second NM criterion (>17"), and the calculator in the live listing fails completely. (Should add $2.75 as above)
• The listing form fails to recognize the third NM criterion (>35 pounds), but the listing deals with it transparently and correctly (the assumption/hope would be that after item sells the shipping label form would properly popluate and the NM surcharge would show there correctly)
• The listing form and the live listings have no coding to deal with NM criterion #4 (cylindrical pkgs), but see possible workaround above (or just add handling fee to cover upcharge later after FedEx bills eBay)
• Both OP and Foxy's issues were due to Smartpost NM criteria. IN OP's case criterion #1 (longest side > 34") and the listing form failing on that. In Foxy's case criterion #2 (second longest side > 17"), the listing form not catching it,  snd the shipping calc in the live listing choking on it.

I'm so deep in the forest here with permutations at this point I don't know if I wandered off the path. If so, let me know. But nicely. You know like "everybody's a winner", "You did your best", etc. And with cake and party hats 🙂

If I'm not wrong, maybe it's time for the Trinton/Heidi show (again).

[the_fancy_fox]

Just happy that the bulk of my items are under 79" total. The few that are bigger I fudge and increase the weight.  I would be happier if they would fix it, but considering how many other glitches there are, I wouldnt bet on it.

My problem was getting the option for smartpost to show in the listing. Over 79" and it would not. Is that fixed? No idea.  I just do a work around now so I dont have to deal with it.

Personally, if this was a big issue for me I would just get my FedX account upgraded to include Smartpost.

[berserkerplanet]

You didn't read what I wrote. I know it's long, but....

Your problem is not 79" length+girth. It is that your packages are non-machinable and the eBay listing tool and the shipping calculator can't handle the first 2 non-machinable cases.

Read what I took the time to write above.

[berserkerplanet]

Have another FedEx bug for you Trinton  @Anonymous

See post #6 above

eBay listing form/calculators are breaking when presented with FedEx Smartpost pkg dimensions that trigger condition 1 or 2 for non-machinability.

The first non-machinable condition (L > 34") causes the lsiting for to throw an incorrect error, and refuse to list item. (> 34" does not exceed Smartpost max limit, it just incurs non-machinable surcharge)

If the second non-machinable condition is in play instead (W > 17") the item will list, but the live lisiting throws the zip code error as shown. Once again, should just incur NM surcharge.

I played with the W>17"  conditon a bit more a few days ago and found again, that as seen in post#6, if Smartpost is the only ship option it throws the zip error. But then found that if Smartpost is one of multiple shipping options, Smartpost just disappears completely from the live listing.

The calculators seem to recognize Smartpost non-machinable surcharges because the SC is added to estimates when the NM condition is condition #3 (weight>35pounds), but something is broken for conditions 1 and 2.

[Anonymous]

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@berserkerplanet wrote:

Have another FedEx bug for you Trinton  @Anonymous

See post #6 above

eBay listing form/calculators are breaking when presented with FedEx Smartpost pkg dimensions that trigger condition 1 or 2 for non-machinability.

The first non-machinable condition (L > 34") causes the lsiting for to throw an incorrect error, and refuse to list item. (> 34" does not exceed Smartpost max limit, it just incurs non-machinable surcharge)

If the second non-machinable condition is in play instead (W > 17") the item will list, but the live lisiting throws the zip code error as shown. Once again, should just incur NM surcharge.

I played with the W>17"  conditon a bit more a few days ago and found again, that as seen in post#6, if Smartpost is the only ship option it throws the zip error. But then found that if Smartpost is one of multiple shipping options, Smartpost just disappears completely from the live listing.

The calculators seem to recognize Smartpost non-machinable surcharges because the SC is added to estimates when the NM condition is condition #3 (weight>35pounds), but something is broken for conditions 1 and 2.

---

Thank you for grabbing me on this one, too! We are actually working on the 17" condition issue right now to ensure it is not able to be listed. I will pass along the other criteria you pointed out with a misleading error message and see what we can do to get this adjusted.

[berserkerplanet]

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@Anonymous wrote:
Thank you for grabbing me on this one, too! We are actually working on the 17" condition issue right now to ensure it is not able to be listed. I will pass along the other criteria you pointed out with a misleading error message and see what we can do to get this adjusted.

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Good to know eBay is aware.  But...                                                              @Anonymous

Why are >34" and >17" Smartpost packages going to be disallowed?

Both of those are "legal" non-machinable Smartpost sizes (as long as the Oversize 130" L+G limit is also observed), and the shipping calculator already deals with the 3rd non-machinable ">35pound" condition and applies the non-machineable surcharge correctly.

Why can't a few lines of code be added to allow the other two conditions?

Or is it due to an exception in eBay's FedEx contract?

            FedEx: "Fine. eBay sellers can use Smartpost, but we don't want big non-machinable

                           packages even with a non-machinable surcharge added" ??

Disallowing larger Smartpost packages (that non-eBay Smartpost shippers can ship) is not a good thing for eBay sellers.

Big and light at reasonable cost is a huge reason why Smartpost can be so useful. Makes it possible to offer a diverse assortment of lower cost, but light and large items such as cowboy hats, lampshades, framed paintings or prints, bicycle wheels, etc. to buyers.

(And that makes it a major problem because it affects me 🙂