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woke

I had to stop selling on eBay because the woke employees steel my money in favor of a convicted thief and burglar. He stole two of my items ($145.00) and eBay stole my money and gave it to him. After 24 years with eBay they crapped all over me. Another BUD LIGHT?

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woke


@robbie31415 wrote:

The brand new biases is the DEI policies.

 

Difference is they are openly discriminatory.

 

I'm sorry but the argument that you need to discriminate in order to fight discrimination is never going to sit well with me.

 

Discrimination is discrimination.


I agree ^^  but I think the bias is manufactured - we have politicians certainly trying to run with it (the bridge crash being the most egregiously silly). They want the old biases back, and to justify it they'll whitewash history. That's worse. 

_______________________
“I have a year, and who knows what might happen in that time. The king might die. The horse might die. I might die. And perhaps the horse will learn to sing.”

Hell is empty. And all the devils are here.
Message 61 of 76
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woke

@robbie31415 

 

"If you think hiring should be based on physical characteristics over capability I don't know what to tell you."

 

You seem to be missing the point -- the only "physical characteristic" that many employers value is a white skin.

 

If you haven't experienced this yet in your life, than you're lucky.

 

 

 

 

Message 62 of 76
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woke

I've never denied discrimination exists.

 

I just don't believe in fighting discrimination with discrimination which is what DEI does.

 

Quotas to meet which results in denying the most qualified candidates because they can't meet the quotas with them IS discrimination.

 

And I will remain with my stance. Physical characteristics should play 0 role. Sex, gender, ethnicity should never be on an application. Applications should be as blind as possible taking only specific information required to perform the job.

Message 63 of 76
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woke

@robbie31415 

 

"Physical characteristics should play 0 role. Sex, gender, ethnicity should never be on an application. Applications should be as blind as possible taking only specific information required to perform the job."

 

Sure.

 

Now if only the individuals doing the hiring actually believed in that.

 

But the majority of them don't.

 

It's still a dream deferred -- except it's 2024, and it's only worse than it was 10 years ago.

 

 

Message 64 of 76
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woke

Orchestra musicians.

To stop unconscious bias against women players, orchestras tested having the players behind a screen so their sex could not be determined.

When the numbers still didn't feel right, candidates were instructed to remove their shoes.

Because the hiring committee was hearing the sound of the women's heels and making an unconsciously biased decision.

Suddenly the number of women hired increased.

And so did the  number of non-white musicians, which was not an expected outcome.

Message 65 of 76
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woke


@oldwestgold wrote:

Attacking the OP for not using words that you can better identify with is not useful either. Why do some that reply to OP's have to take the attack to a personal level when they use a certain word or misuse sentence structure? It was a free country last I checked which included freedom of speech.  Just say'in. They are just words. No one is special here.


Freedom of Speech does NOT apply to Communities like this one.  Ebay sets the rules for the Community, not the government. 

 

Freedom of Speech is the right to express yourself verbally or written without concern of government censorship or restraint.


mam98031  •  Volunteer Community Member  •  Buyer/Seller since 1999

"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you." Quote from Edward I Koch

Message 66 of 76
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woke

And "just sayin'" is weasel words. You are entitled to your own opinion, right or wrong, and don't need them.

_______________________
“I have a year, and who knows what might happen in that time. The king might die. The horse might die. I might die. And perhaps the horse will learn to sing.”

Hell is empty. And all the devils are here.
Message 67 of 76
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woke


@robbie31415 wrote:

 

Physical characteristics should play 0 role. Sex, gender, ethnicity should never be on an application. Applications should be as blind as possible taking only specific information required to perform the job.


You say that like people are only hired by applications.  Even if hiring personnel were 100% blinded to anything  potentially identity-related on applications, they'll still see the people in interviews.  They can just schedule enough interviews to pick the most qualified white male out of the bunch, even if he's not as qualified as a woman and/or person of color.   So what's your solution to that?    If you're picturing a branch of government that questions employers' every hiring decision, like going through their applications and asking why they didn't pick this or that person ..... well first of all the employer could always claim the interviews revealed the applicants' "people skills" and that was an important factor, but more importantly it would take an insanely large government workforce to do all this questioning, cost an insane amount of tax money, and the optics of having agents making employers explain themselves for all their hiring decisions would be hideous; "Big Government" and "Big Brother" rhetoric non-stop.  

Again, you might not like the idea of quotas, but if you can think of a way to enforce anti-discrimination without massive cost and invasion of employers' right to some level of discretion, then what would it be?  

Message 68 of 76
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woke

Unconscious bias is the hardest one to overcome.

"If a product doesn't sell, raise the price" - Reese Palley
"If it sold FAST, it was priced too low" - also Reese Palley
Message 69 of 76
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woke

@gurlcat 

 

This article appeared in today's "New York Times" -- 

 

What Researchers Discovered When They Sent 80,000 Fake Résumés to U.S. Jobs

Some companies discriminated against Black applicants much more than others, and H.R. practices made a big difference.

April 8, 2024

A group of economists recently performed an experiment on around 100 of the largest companies in the country, applying for jobs using made-up résumés with equivalent qualifications but different personal characteristics. They changed applicants’ names to suggest that they were white or Black, and male or female — Latisha or Amy, Lamar or Adam.

 

On Monday, they released the names of the companies. On average, they found, employers contacted the presumed white applicants 9.5 percent more often than the presumed Black applicants.

 

Yet this practice varied significantly by firm and industry. One-fifth of the companies — many of them retailers or car dealers — were responsible for nearly half of the gap in callbacks to white and Black applicants.

 

Two companies favored white applicants over Black applicants significantly more than others. They were AutoNation, a used car retailer, which contacted presumed white applicants 43 percent more often, and Genuine Parts Company, which sells auto parts including under the NAPA brand, and called presumed white candidates 33 percent more often.

 

In a statement, Heather Ross, a spokeswoman for Genuine Parts, said, “We are always evaluating our practices to ensure inclusivity and break down barriers, and we will continue to do so.” AutoNation did not respond to a request for comment.
 

Companies With the Largest and Smallest Racial Contact Gaps

Of the 97 companies in the experiment, two stood out as contacting presumed white job applicants significantly more often than presumed Black ones. At 14 companies, there was little or no difference in how often they called back the presumed white or Black applicants.

 
What Researchers Discovered When They Sent 80,000 Fake Résumés to U.S. Jobs - The New York Times

Known as an audit study, the experiment was the largest of its kind in the United States: The researchers sent 80,000 résumés to 10,000 jobs from 2019 to 2021. The results demonstrate how entrenched employment discrimination is in parts of the U.S. labor market — and the extent to which Black workers start behind in certain industries.

 

“I am not in the least bit surprised,” said Daiquiri Steele, an assistant professor at the University of Alabama School of Law who previously worked for the Department of Labor on employment discrimination. “If you’re having trouble breaking in, the biggest issue is the ripple effect it has. It affects your wages and the economy of your community going forward.”

 

Some companies showed no difference in how they treated applications from people assumed to be white or Black. Their human resources practices — and one policy in particular (more on that later) — offer guidance for how companies can avoid biased decisions in the hiring process.

 

A lack of racial bias was more common in certain industries: food stores, including Kroger; food products, including Mondelez; freight and transport, including FedEx and Ryder; and wholesale, including Sysco and McLane Company.

“We want to bring people’s attention not only to the fact that racism is real, sexism is real, some are discriminating, but also that it’s possible to do better, and there’s something to be learned from those that have been doing a good job,” said Patrick Kline, an economist at the University of California, Berkeley, who conducted the study with Evan K. Rose at the University of Chicago and Christopher R. Walters at Berkeley.

The researchers first published details of their experiment in 2021, but without naming the companies. The new paper, which is set to run in the American Economic Review, names the companies and explains the methodology developed to group them by their performance, while accounting for statistical noise.

Sample Résumés From the Experiment

Fictitious résumés sent to large U.S. companies revealed a preference, on average, for candidates whose names suggested that they were white.


 

To assign names, the researchers started with a prior list that had been assembled using Massachusetts birth certificates from 1974 to 1979. They then supplemented this list with names found in a database of speeding tickets issued in North Carolina between 2006 and 2018, classifying a name as “distinctive” if more than 90 percent of people with that name were of a particular race.
 

The study includes 97 firms. The jobs the researchers applied to were entry level, not requiring a college degree or substantial work experience. In addition to race and gender, the researchers tested other characteristics protected by law, like age and sexual orientation.

 

They sent up to 1,000 applications to each company, applying for as many as 125 jobs per company in locations nationwide, to try to uncover patterns in companies’ operations versus isolated instances. Then they tracked whether the employer contacted the applicant within 30 days.

 

A bias against Black names

Companies requiring lots of interaction with customers, like sales and retail, particularly in the auto sector, were most likely to show a preference for applicants presumed to be white. This was true even when applying for positions at those firms that didn’t involve customer interaction, suggesting that discriminatory practices were baked in to corporate culture or H.R. practices, the researchers said.

 

Still, there were exceptions — some of the companies exhibiting the least bias were retailers, like Lowe’s and Target.

 

The study may underestimate the rate of discrimination against Black applicants in the labor market as a whole because it tested large companies, which tend to discriminate less, said Lincoln Quillian, a sociologist at Northwestern who analyzes audit studies. It did not include names intended to represent Latino or Asian American applicants, but other research suggests that they are also contacted less than white applicants, though they face less discrimination than Black applicants.

 

The experiment ended in 2021, and some of the companies involved might have changed their practices since. Still, a review of all available audit studies found that discrimination against Black applicants had not changed in three decades. After the Black Lives Matter protests in 2020, such discrimination was found to have disappeared among certain employers, but the researchers behind that study said the effect was most likely short-lived.

 

Gender, age and L.G.B.T.Q. status

On average, companies did not treat male and female applicants differently. This aligns with other research showing that gender discrimination against women is rare in entry-level jobs, and starts later in careers.

 

However, when companies did favor men (especially in manufacturing) or women (mostly at apparel stores), the biases were much larger than for race. Builders FirstSource contacted presumed male applicants more than twice as often as female ones. Ascena, which owns brands like Ann Taylor, contacted women 66 percent more than men.

 

Neither company responded to requests for comment.

 

The consequences of being female differed by race. The differences were small, but being female was a slight benefit for white applicants, and a slight penalty for Black applicants.

 

The researchers also tested several other characteristics protected by law, with a smaller number of résumés. They found there was a small penalty for being over 40.

 

Overall, they found no penalty for using nonbinary pronouns. Being gay, as indicated by including membership in an L.G.B.T.Q. club on the résumé, resulted in a slight penalty for white applicants, but benefited Black applicants — although the effect was small, when this was on their résumés, the racial penalty disappeared.

 
Under the Civil Rights Act of 1964, discrimination is illegal even if it’s unintentional. Yet in the real world, it is difficult for job applicants to know why they did not hear back from a company.
 

“These practices are particularly challenging to address because applicants often do not know whether they are being discriminated against in the hiring process,” Brandalyn Bickner, a spokeswoman for the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, said in a statement. (It has seen the data and spoken with the researchers, though it could not use an academic study as the basis for an investigation, she said.)

 

What companies can do to reduce discrimination

Several common measures — like employing a chief diversity officer, offering diversity training or having a diverse board — were not correlated with decreased discrimination in entry-level hiring, the researchers found.

 

But one thing strongly predicted less discrimination: a centralized H.R. operation.

 

The researchers recorded the voice mail messages that the fake applicants received. When a company’s calls came from fewer individual phone numbers, suggesting that they were originating from a central office, there tended to be less bias. When they came from individual hiring managers at local stores or warehouses, there was more. These messages often sounded frantic and informal, asking if an applicant could start the next day, for example.

 

“That’s when implicit biases kick in,” Professor Kline said. A more formalized hiring process helps overcome this, he said: “Just thinking about things, which steps to take, having to run something by someone for approval, can be quite important in mitigating bias.

 

At Sysco, a wholesale restaurant food distributor, which showed no racial bias in the study, a centralized recruitment team reviews résumés and decides whom to call. “Consistency in how we review candidates, with a focus on the requirements of the position, is key,” said Ron Phillips, Sysco’s chief human resources officer. “It lessens the opportunity for personal viewpoints to rise in the process.”

 

Another important factor is diversity among the people hiring, said Paula Hubbard, the chief human resources officer at McLane Company. It procures, stores and delivers products for large chains like Walmart, and showed no racial bias in the study. Around 40 percent of the company’s recruiters are people of color, and 60 percent are women.

 

Diversifying the pool of people who apply also helps, H.R. officials said. McLane goes to events for women in trucking and puts up billboards in Spanish.

 

So does hiring based on skills, versus degrees. While McLane used to require a college degree for many roles, it changed that practice after determining that specific skills mattered more for warehousing or driving jobs. “We now do that for all our jobs: Is there truly a degree required?” Ms. Hubbard said. “Why? Does it make sense? Is experience enough?”

 

Hilton, another company that showed no racial bias in the study, also stopped requiring degrees for many jobs, in 2018.

 

Another factor associated with less bias in hiring, the new study found, was more regulatory scrutiny — like at federal contractors, or companies with more Labor Department citations.

 

Finally, more profitable companies were less biased, in line with a long-held economics theory by the Nobel Prize winner Gary Becker that discrimination is bad for business. Economists said that could be because the more profitable companies benefit from a more diverse set of employees. Or it could be an indication that they had more efficient business processes, in H.R. and elsewhere.


 

Message 70 of 76
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woke

So when I was looking for work I was competing against 80,000 fake job applications being sent out as a research project.  

Message 71 of 76
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woke

Wow, crazy timing!  I bet those companies are not happy about their names being released LOL.  

Message 72 of 76
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woke


@deltilogical wrote:

So when I was looking for work I was competing against 80,000 fake job applications being sent out as a research project.  


🤣Yes.  In fact that job you applied for at Napa Auto Parts is now occupied by a researcher posing as one of the fake names he submitted on a fake resume.  It started out as a dare from his colleagues, but after a few days on the job he realized how much happier he was, kinda like Kevin Spacey in 'American Beauty' was, working a fast food drive through window.  

Message 73 of 76
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woke


@deltilogical wrote:

So when I was looking for work I was competing against 80,000 fake job applications being sent out as a research project.  


That in an of itself seems very problematic and delayed some real people from landing some jobs.


mam98031  •  Volunteer Community Member  •  Buyer/Seller since 1999

"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you." Quote from Edward I Koch

Message 74 of 76
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woke


@deltilogical wrote:

So when I was looking for work I was competing against 80,000 fake job applications being sent out as a research project.  


You were probably not in direct competition with 80,000 fake people - they threw a pretty wide net.

_______________________
“I have a year, and who knows what might happen in that time. The king might die. The horse might die. I might die. And perhaps the horse will learn to sing.”

Hell is empty. And all the devils are here.
Message 75 of 76
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