eBay

ask_777 · ‎08-28-2024

Hello eBay Community,

I have been a seller on eBay for the past 17 years, and can honestly say that overall my level of satisfaction in doing business has been very positive.

This is a message that I wanted to share with all of you regarding the policy of "Seller Protection" or the lack thereof.

eBay prides itself on providing buyer protection to everyone wanting to purchase an item on the eBay site, however, does not offer the same protection to all sellers.

My personal experience was I sold a pair of very expensive designer sunglasses to a buyer who managed to worked around the eBay "Seller Protection" policy and receive a full refund for the purchase price and also ended up keeping the sunglasses without having to return them to me

You may be asking yourself how could this possibly happen on ebay?

Let me explain, the buyer knew that there was a way to work around the eBay enforcement of the "Seller Protection Policy" if they contacted their Credit Card Company directly and disputed the transaction. Buy doing this they would eventually received the full refund of $525 based on their relationship with their Credit Card company and effectively bypass any control that eBay would have over the buyer.

I did want to clarify that I made every effort in this particular case, to personally refund the full purchase price to the buyer as they stated that they were not happy with the purchase. I agreed to cancel the transaction to expedite the process and to make the buyer happy. Based on the eBay Seller Protection Policy the policy states that the buyer would have to return the sunglasses back to me the seller, and on receipt of the Sunglasses eBay would then provide the buyer with the refund.

The problem was that because the buyer directly approached their Credit Card Company to dispute the transaction to receive the refund, they knew that this would circumvented the the " Seller Protection policy and they could keep the sunglasses even after they had received the full refund.

In summary, the "Seller Protection Policy" is only enforceable if eBay manages the refund to the buyer, and in my case, the buyer received the refund from the Credit Card Company and bypasses any control that eBay would have have in ensuring that the buyer return the Sunglasses back to me. The buyer has kept the Sunglasses and refused to return them back to me which is blatant theft and fraud.

eBay is not willing to assist me in this situation and has told me that they have no authority to instruct the buyer to return my sunglasses back to me . In fact every Supervisor that I have spoken with for the past 8 months has said that I need to open a criminal theft case regarding this criminal operating on the eBay site, which we all know is a total waist of time end effort.

Please feel free to share your thoughts and experiences with community as we all need to be aware of criminals operating on eBay.

gurlcat · ‎08-28-2024

@ask_777 wrote:

eBay is not willing to assist me in this situation and has told me that they have no authority to instruct the buyer to return my sunglasses back to me . In fact every Supervisor that I have spoken with for the past 8 months has said that I need to open a criminal theft case regarding this criminal operating on the eBay site, which we all know is a total waist of time end effort.

Please feel free to share your thoughts and experiences with community as we all need to be aware of criminals operating on eBay.

Do you believe they are being dishonest about not having authority over this situation? What action do you picture them being able to do, but refusing to do? Please be specific. And I'm not being facetious, quite sincere.

kensgiftshop · ‎08-28-2024

Credit card charge backs is a problem and once the buyer goes that route, Ebay won't do anything to help.

Have a great day.

gurlcat · ‎08-28-2024

@kensgiftshop wrote:
Credit card charge backs is a problem and once the buyer goes that route, Ebay won't do anything to help.

They actually will. I have never had to pay any of my chargebacks. But I want to help the OP come to the truth in steps for a reason.

chapeau-noir · ‎08-28-2024

It's really unfortunate that this happened to the OP, but there is nothing in their post that's even remotely new.

The chargeback situation is a real problem and not only on eBay. I'm not sure what the resolution would be (not in the credit business) but it won't get any better.

I've also won chargebacks, but they've been very specific.

“The illegal we do immediately, the unconstitutional takes a little longer.” - Henry Kissinger

"Wherever law ends, tyranny begins" -John Locke

luckythewinner · ‎08-28-2024

eBay prides itself on providing buyer protection to everyone wanting to purchase an item on the eBay site, however, does not offer the same protection to all sellers.

Of course not! On a platform that cannot observe the exchange of goods firsthand, Buyer Protection and Seller Protection will generally be in direct conflict because it is essentially a "he said, she said" situation.

Based on the eBay Seller Protection Policy the policy states that the buyer would have to return the sunglasses back to me the seller

The eBay return policy says that a buyer must return the item if the the buyer initiates a return through eBay and the seller accepts it. But your buyer did not initiate a return through eBay, so the eBay return policy does not apply.

Your buyer filed a payment dispute, so the eBay payment dispute policy applies. And the eBay payment dispute policy specifically says that you may not get your item back:

"If you ask for an item to be returned to you during a payment dispute, we’ll try to recover the item for you, regardless of whether you accept or challenge the payment dispute. However, we can’t guarantee the buyer will return the item."

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes?id=4799

You may be asking yourself how could this possibly happen on ebay?

I think most people reading this board know exactly how that could happen. Fraudulent disputes and payment disputes have been a fact of life for years (since 2008 when eBay introduced the Money Back Guarantee for buyers, and since eBay required sellers to use an approved payment service like PayPal or Managed Payments).

eBay is not willing to assist me in this situation and has told me that they have no authority to instruct the buyer to return my sunglasses back to me .

That is correct - eBay cannot force a buyer to pick up an item, put it in a box, and ship it. (As an aside, eBay cannot force a seller to pick up an item, put it in a box, and ship it either).

dbfolks166mt · ‎08-28-2024

It's really unfortunate that this happened to the OP, but there is nothing in their post that's even remotely new.

The chargeback situation is a real problem and not only on eBay. I'm not sure what the resolution would be (not in the credit business) but it won't get any better.

I've also won chargebacks, but they've been very specific.

Agree that the OP's post is nothing new and it happens more often than it should on not only eBay but other ecommerce sites as well as B&M stores and to service providers. It has become a multi-billion dollar problem but the only resolution would be for the Federal government to change the 50 year old consumer protection laws and bring them up to date with the modern business world.

dbfolks166mt · ‎08-28-2024

@ask_777 wrote:

eBay is not willing to assist me in this situation and has told me that they have no authority to instruct the buyer to return my sunglasses back to me . In fact every Supervisor that I have spoken with for the past 8 months has said that I need to open a criminal theft case regarding this criminal operating on the eBay site, which we all know is a total waist of time end effort.

Please feel free to share your thoughts and experiences with community as we all need to be aware of criminals operating on eBay.

Do you believe they are being dishonest about not having authority over this situation? What action do you picture them being able to do, but refusing to do? Please be specific. And I'm not being facetious, quite sincere.

EBay could take some steps to try and curb the chargeback abuse but they have no incentive to do so. Current consumer protection laws imply that a chargeback should NOT be the cardholders first course of action related to a purchase and they should exhaust the merchants return/refund policy before opening a chargeback.

EBay could easily respond to a CC chargeback letting the CC company know they card holder has never attempted to resolve their issue through the eBay process before opening the chargeback. However, that requires resources that eat into the bottom line so eBay is ahead by simply deferring to the CC company. In fact if a buyer opens a claim through eBay and at the same time opens a CC chargeback eBay will automatically close the eBay claim and dump it on the CC company.

dbfolks166mt · ‎08-28-2024

@kensgiftshop wrote:
Credit card charge backs is a problem and once the buyer goes that route, Ebay won't do anything to help.

They actually will. I have never had to pay any of my chargebacks. But I want to help the OP come to the truth in steps for a reason.

EBay does actually expends a minimal amount of effort since they are required to serve as the intermediary between the CC company and the seller. The seller can prevail against some chargebacks such as INR's and purchase not recognized but when it comes to NAD sellers have a better chance of winning the lottery than prevailing against a NAD chargeback.

If you are prevailing against NAD chargebacks consider yourself lucky just like the lottery winners.

gurlcat · ‎08-28-2024

I don't think we have the full, accurate picture here, not that the OP is being deceptive but unclear. Note this passage:
"I did want to clarify that I made every effort in this particular case, to personally refund the full purchase price to the buyer as they stated that they were not happy with the purchase. I agreed to cancel the transaction to expedite the process and to make the buyer happy. Based on the eBay Seller Protection Policy the policy states that the buyer would have to return the sunglasses back to me the seller, and on receipt of the Sunglasses eBay would then provide the buyer with the refund."

Now what was THAT all about? Cancel the transaction?? Also that last phrase -sounds like they have never had a return in 17 years, if they think eBay pays the refund for RETURNS, like the seller gets to keep the sale money AND have the item back to resell again? PFFFF.
I maintain that Seller Protections absolutely can and will save you from chargeback loss if you do exactly the right steps in the right order. -All of mine have been INAD by the way. But I'm not going to get too invested in this particular case unless/until the OP comes back and makes the facts clearer. Hopefully without "explaining" to us things that are already obvious or pure speculation again.

gurlcat · ‎08-28-2024

@luckythewinner wrote:
eBay prides itself on providing buyer protection to everyone wanting to purchase an item on the eBay site, however, does not offer the same protection to all sellers.
Of course not! On a platform that cannot observe the exchange of goods firsthand, Buyer Protection and Seller Protection will generally be in direct conflict because it is essentially a "he said, she said" situation.

It sounds like you interpreted that as seller vs. buyer, but I think they meant seller vs. seller. Like some sellers get better eBay protection than other sellers.

dbfolks166mt · ‎08-28-2024

There is little new in your post that has not been posted here before but with regards to a couple of your statements.

"Let me explain, the buyer knew that there was a way to work around the eBay enforcement of the "Seller Protection Policy" if they contacted their Credit Card Company directly and disputed the transaction. Buy doing this they would eventually received the full refund of $525 based on their relationship with their Credit Card company and effectively bypass any control that eBay would have over the buyer."

"This has nothing to do with the "relationship with their Credit Card company" it has everything to do with the current federal laws the CC companies are required to operate under. CC companies hate chargebacks as much as anyone as it requires resources to deal with them and that eats into their bottom line. Most major CC companies monitor cardholder chargeback activity and will revoke the CC holders account if they detect chargeback abuse.

They also monitor merchant activity and may revoke the merchants ability to accept their card as a form of payment if there are an excessive number of chargebacks. I am not sure what that level would be for a company like eBay.

"eBay is not willing to assist me in this situation and has told me that they have no authority to instruct the buyer to return my sunglasses back to me . In fact every Supervisor that I have spoken with for the past 8 months has said that I need to open a criminal theft case regarding this criminal operating on the eBay site, which we all know is a total waist of time end effort."

While reporting the incident to the buyers local law enforcement may seem like a waste of time not doing so does even less. While law enforcement may not initially take any action due to limited resources they may look for patterns and open and work a case which takes a considerable amount of time to build.

The FBI cyber crimes division is in a similar situation when it comes to available resources to work cases but you can read the news releases on the FBI cyber crimes site and notice number of cases related to criminal prosecution of, for lack of a better word, scammers.

dbfolks166mt · ‎08-28-2024

I don't think we have the full, accurate picture here, not that the OP is being deceptive but unclear. Note this passage:
"I did want to clarify that I made every effort in this particular case, to personally refund the full purchase price to the buyer as they stated that they were not happy with the purchase. I agreed to cancel the transaction to expedite the process and to make the buyer happy. Based on the eBay Seller Protection Policy the policy states that the buyer would have to return the sunglasses back to me the seller, and on receipt of the Sunglasses eBay would then provide the buyer with the refund."

Now what was THAT all about? Cancel the transaction?? Also that last phrase -sounds like they have never had a return in 17 years, if they think eBay pays the refund for RETURNS, like the seller gets to keep the sale money AND have the item back to resell again? PFFFF.

There are a few missing details but from what I read the buyer opened a chargeback and the seller attempted to try and get the buyer to use the eBay process which would have been for naught since the chargeback was already opened and eBay would have closed out any case the buyer may have opened in eBay deferring to the chargeback.

I maintain that Seller Protections absolutely can and will save you from chargeback loss if you do exactly the right steps in the right order. -All of mine have been INAD by the way. But I'm not going to get too invested in this particular case unless/until the OP comes back and makes the facts clearer. Hopefully without "explaining" to us things that are already obvious or pure speculation again.

As I mentioned if you are prevailing against NAD's consider your self lucky. Statistics show that the merchant almost always looses a NAD. I have prevailed for a number of chargebacks but almost all were INR or charge not recognized.