eBay took the side of the buyer again

[alternative_lab_source]

I just got a taste of the "buyers always win" practice of eBay as a seller. I am very mad about the situation, so I will share it here and see what you guys think. 

I am a top-rated seller of laboratory equipment and supplies. Since I opened the store last year, I have had 100% positive rating until this last buyer left a negative review. 

Earlier this month, a buyer  purchased a vacuum pump from me. The sold price was $999. I packaged it personally and shipped it out via UPS. About two weeks later, the buyer opened a return case, claiming that I sent some books, not the pump. I knew this was a scam right away, but since I accept returns, the return process started automatically. When I received the package, I refused to issue refund, eBay stepped in and ruled in favor of the buyer. I appealed, and then eBay quickly rejected my appeal.

I have evidence to show that I shipped the pump, not the books. Here they are:

1) The pump is very heavy, and the package with the pump was 60 lb when I shipped it. The total weight of the package with the books was only 32 lb. UPS verified the weight and dimensions of the packages during the initial scan, and UPS accepted my shipping label. I also have a video captured using my Ring camera that shows a UPS driver picking up the package. From the way the driver carries it, anyone could see this is not how a big guy carries a 32 lb package.

2) There is a minor oil stain at the bottom corner of the package. The vacuum pump uses mechanical oil.

3) The tape at the bottom was clearly tampered with when I received the returned package. The eBay water-activated tape that I used to package the pump is clearly broken and re-taped with regular tape. The buyer's photo showed that he opened from the top of the box (the side with the shipping label), which begs the question that who opened the box from the bottom and why?

4) Among the seven books that were returned, six were new textbooks namely "Mosby's Textbook for nursing assistants". The buyer is a faculty member at a medical school. Who is more likely to have these books?

I have all the photos and records to support my evidence. Not going to upload here because they may contain personal information. I didn't submit this evidence during the first appeal, because I thought an eBay agent would reach out to me to collect evidence. That wasn't the case and they refused to reopen the case, saying (here I am quoting) "The way the system was set up is that we only receive a single appeal from both seller and buyer."

Now I am left with holding the bag of about $1150 bill (item value plus shipping). What should I do?

[mam98031]

@alternative_lab_source 

Here is the info you were asking for.

Guidelines for how much to deduct from the refund

Here are some guidelines to help you determine how much to deduct from the buyer's refund.

Condition of return	Refund deduction guidance
Excellent condition: Unused, undamaged, or unaltered All items included in the original package Factory or vacuum seal must not be broken/opened (if applicable) Original tags included & attached (where applicable) Must include provided certificates of authenticity, grading, or appraisal	No deductions
Good condition: Missing original packaging Factory or vacuum seal is broken/opened, but the item is still in its original condition Original tags included but unattached	5%–10% deduction
Fair condition: Missing parts Some signs of wear or use Item has been installed Item has been registered or user has not logged out of the device's account, and it cannot easily be set back to factory settings Original tags missing	15%–30% deduction
Poor condition: Significant signs of wear, or significantly different than how it was shipped to the buyer Missing essential parts Item is damaged, scratched, defective, or requires service or repair  Missing provided certificates of authenticity, grading, or appraisal Opened items that cannot be resold (perishables, liquor, makeup)  Sold multiple items but the buyer didn’t return all of them	35%–50% deduction

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/handle-return-request-seller?id=4115#:~:t....

[dryophelia]

@alternative_lab_source 

Losses are deductible on your year end taxes. 

[mam98031]

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@dryophelia wrote:

@alternative_lab_source 

Losses are deductible on your year end taxes. 

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While this is helpful it certainly doesn't make up for full amount loss.

[alternative_lab_source]

I see what you mean. I didn't want to issue any refund to scammers though. Issuing 50% voluntarily is like admitting fault partially. Thanks for the info though.

[vintage-camerastuff]

Let the buyer know that you are pursuing having criminal and mail fraud charges brought against him.  Then do it.  Let him sit and worry about that for awhile.  Every time someone knocks on his door he will run and hide.  He may even decide to send it back.   At least scare the H___ out of him.

[mam98031]

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@alternative_lab_source wrote:

I see what you mean. I didn't want to issue any refund to scammers though. Issuing 50% voluntarily is like admitting fault partially. Thanks for the info though.

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However in this case you couldn't have done it anyway, you allowed Ebay to step in and decide, which is why the buyer was refunded.  I rarely will turn out for a seller when you allow Ebay to step in on any dispute.

[alternative_lab_source]

A common mantra on eBay is "don't sell anything you cannot afford to lose".

Good point. I sell items over $3000 on eBay almost every month. Guess it is time to move on.

The eBay user agreement you acknowledged says that if you allow eBay to step in, you agree to accept whatever decision they arrive at. So I am not sure what you would take them to court over. Also note that in the same user agreement, you agreed to resolve disputes with eBay via arbitration and not via the courts.

True, but eBay also promises to make a fair verdict in its policy. I will let eBay argue how their verdict is fair in court. I will let you know the result.

[mam98031]

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@vintage-camerastuff wrote:

Let the buyer know that you are pursuing having criminal and mail fraud charges brought against him.  Then do it.  Let him sit and worry about that for awhile.  Every time someone knocks on his door he will run and hide.  He may even decide to send it back.   At least scare the H___ out of him.

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The package was shipped via UPS, no "mail fraud" wont work here.  But you are right, filing a police report is a very good idea.  Outlining everything.

Then file to appeal the refund again, noting the police report.  Ebay does tend to take things more seriously with a police report number.

[dbfolks166mt]

A common mantra on eBay is "don't sell anything you cannot afford to lose".

Good point. I sell items over $3000 on eBay almost every month. Guess it is time to move on.

The eBay user agreement you acknowledged says that if you allow eBay to step in, you agree to accept whatever decision they arrive at. So I am not sure what you would take them to court over. Also note that in the same user agreement, you agreed to resolve disputes with eBay via arbitration and not via the courts.

    As an FYI that may be what the user agreement says but it means nothing. You cannot have a binding agreement with anyone that is in violation of existing laws or rights. EBay has been sued multiple times in the courts by sellers. They have won some but they have also lost some. The following is a link to some of those. 

https://www.ecommercebytes.com/tag/ebay-lawsuit/ 

True, but eBay also promises to make a fair verdict in its policy. I will let eBay argue how their verdict is fair in court. I will let you know the result.

[mam98031]

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@alternative_lab_source wrote:

A common mantra on eBay is "don't sell anything you cannot afford to lose".

Good point. I sell items over $3000 on eBay almost every month. Guess it is time to move on.

The eBay user agreement you acknowledged says that if you allow eBay to step in, you agree to accept whatever decision they arrive at. So I am not sure what you would take them to court over. Also note that in the same user agreement, you agreed to resolve disputes with eBay via arbitration and not via the courts.

True, but eBay also promises to make a fair verdict in its policy. I will let eBay argue how their verdict is fair in court. I will let you know the result.

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You would allow a single transaction to set the tone for your entire business?  The current loss of $1,100 to make you decide it is not worth a yearly gross income of approximately $36,000.  Not sure why one would make that decision to leave Ebay over this one transaction!

If you are talking about suing, it would likely work out better for you if you sued the buyer, not Ebay, in small claims court.  Many courts are still allowing virtual cases to be heard.

I would suggest you check with UPS and get all the info you can.  To include what the packaged weighted when it was delivered back to you.  Verse proof of what you sent actually weighs.

[asset_liquidators]

Nope, they let ebay "step in" and issue the refund so to add insult to injury, they got back a pile of books, got a MAJOR defect on their seller account, and (if I recall correctly) don't get back their FVF because ebay had to step in and initiate the refund.

[farmalljr]

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@alternative_lab_source wrote:

Thanks for the advice. I actually emailed the professor right away, and he/she responded fairly quickly. According to him/her, he/she opened the package with his/her students in the lab and was also mad and disappointed. He/She said he/she suspects UPS. UPS initially lost the package for a couple of days after arriving at the state of the delivery address, then delivered all of a sudden.

I think you are right I should file a police report. Police should be aware of such fraud, regardless of what they do about it. The only problem is that the buyer is in Connecticut and I am in Ohio.

I am also considering filing a small-claim lawsuit against eBay for unfair verdict. Does anyone have experience with this?

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And how would the UPS driver get ahold of books from the college to repack the box? I highly doubt UPS did that. You have a liar on your hands. If the pump has a serial number, ask the dean of the school to look at the pumps and tell you if it's there. 

Water activated tape also has fiber reinforcement. It's not going to fall apart like regular paper when it gets wet. I know, because I use it too. 

You do whatever you want, but I can see the scam the person is pulling. I would involve the dean or whoever, that is their direct supervisor. Yes, sometimes things happen, but the buyer would have noticed the tape on the box right? How many times was the box taped? Once? Then that tells you the story you are being told is pure bull. UPS would not have access to the books at the college to play switcheroo. 

[qeqo_0]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@vintage-camerastuff wrote:

Let the buyer know that you are pursuing having criminal and mail fraud charges brought against him.  Then do it.  Let him sit and worry about that for awhile.  Every time someone knocks on his door he will run and hide.  He may even decide to send it back.   At least scare the H___ out of him.

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The package was shipped via UPS, no "mail fraud" wont work here.  But you are right, filing a police report is a very good idea.  Outlining everything. 

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Why is The package was shipped via UPS, no "mail fraud" wont work here incorrect?

[farmalljr]

Oh, so you are ok with taking a $1200 loss? Nah, we know you aren't. A seller making decision to protect their business and profits is smart. I don't care where they sell or how. No one selling here is in the business to give stuff away. 

As evidence of the shrinking user base, many people must feel dealings here are not worth it either. I realize inflation has made things more expensive and all, but few people look at 1200 as a small, insignificant loss. It's approximately 5% of that 36K you were talking about. That's just ONE transaction. How many more could one suffer, before they are in serious trouble?

The best thing for the OP to do is file a police report and lock a criminal up. Then get the damages they are owed at the criminals sentencing. And lets be real, eBay isn't doing anything to stop this kind of crime. They could go to some efforts if they were serious about it. But they toss their hands in the air and refuse to do anything, seemingly facilitating these crimes. You are not really a facilitator when you are the one with final say over all matters. Sellers should not be treated this way. 

[luckythewinner]

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@alternative_lab_source wrote:

The eBay user agreement you acknowledged says that if you allow eBay to step in, you agree to accept whatever decision they arrive at. So I am not sure what you would take them to court over. Also note that in the same user agreement, you agreed to resolve disputes with eBay via arbitration and not via the courts.

True, but eBay also promises to make a fair verdict in its policy. I will let eBay argue how their verdict is fair in court. I will let you know the result.

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Where does it say in the policy that it will be "fair"? Here is what the policy says:

Deciding the outcome when the item doesn't match the listing

When a buyer reports that an item doesn't match the listing and the transaction meets our eligibility requirements, we will look for all of the following:

• Evidence that the buyer and seller have each met their return requirements
  Whether the seller breached eBay policies when listing the item
  Whether the item can be shipped back to the seller
  Proof of return delivery, if the item was being returned

What part of this says the decision will be "fair"?

If I see that you come back and let us know the result of a court case, that will be the first of the 1,000 or so people who have posted here claiming they are taking eBay to court.