eBay service metrics are a predatory to increase your final value fees by 50%

[aruraclothing]

I am a top rated concierge seller with 100% positive feedback and have been for years. I want to break down the predatory eBay service metric scam for you. On your seller dashboard if you click on "performance" and "service metrics" you will see a chart of "item not as described" and "item not received". What is so predatory about these metrics? eBay claims that they will review and possibly remove these defects if you report a buyer for improperly filing there return claim. That is completely false. I  have always reported buyers who misuse the return feature on eBay and have never had a defect remove. That is because this is a scam for eBay to charge 50% more on your final value fees and remove any top rated seller discounts for the category you are selling the products in that receive the defects. This 50% increase will go on until you drop down into what they consider "industry standard". 

I sell a lot of clothing, I take actual photos of all my items, pictures of all the tags inner and hang tags. I also purchase all my items directly from manufacturer outlet stores in my area. They are all 100% authentic. You would be amazed how many defects I get from buyers opening return claims for "doesn't seem authentic" or "doesn't match description or photos" because they say the color is different. Or, they just select one of those without even paying attention when the item may have just "not fit" or they just "did not like it". The worst thing is I offer free returns with all these items. I am not fighting these returns and provide a return label but these defects still post and count against my account. eBay claims that all your peers are under the "same standard", so essentially you are telling me that eBay is screwing all sellers with this policy. This is what happens when a company is publicly owned and is struggling to show year over year growth. They come up with predatory policies to increase profits and shareholder value while decreasing the profits of small business owners like myself who use there service daily. 

Even more ludicrous is the "item not received" service metric. Basically if you ship an item to a buyer and the tracking shows as delivered sellers have always been protected and they still are as far as monetarily on that purchase. What is ridiculous is that eBay actually counts that "item not received" against your service metrics even when the post office scans the package as delivered. I have absolutely no control over USPS delivery scans outside of my local post office that I work with. Even more absurd I was told by an eBay concierge representative that I should find another shipping company to work with. Last time I checked there were three options UPS, FED-EX and USPS. The lowest cost most reliable option is USPS. 

You would be surprised to see how many buyer with "no feedback" file these return request for "items not described" or "doesn't seem authentic", etc. These are brand new accounts or people with only a few feedbacks opening claims against someone who has been a top rated seller for 15 years. New account should have this feature unavailable, especially when it comes to sellers who have showed consistent behavior of exceptional service year after year. 

I am sure this is not the last time you will hear about this topic. 

[zamo-zuan]

---

@luckythewinner wrote:

---

You would be surprised to see how many buyer with "no feedback" file these return request for "items not described" or "doesn't seem authentic", etc.

I am not surpised at all, because I read about it from sellers all the time on this board. But you might also be sprised to see how many seller *never* have buyers file SNADS, regardless of  how much feedback they have. 

These are brand new accounts or people with only a few feedbacks opening claims against someone who has been a top rated seller for 15 years. New account should have this feature unavailable, especially when it comes to sellers who have showed consistent behavior of exceptional service year after year.  

eBay is in desperate need of new buyers.

But telling those new buyers "We have a money back guarantee, but sellers are free to screw you for a year before we will offer it to you" is probably not a good way to attract them. 

---

I agree that eBay does need more buyers.

But if they really wanted more buyers, getting rid of stupid systems like this service metric system are the way to start. Because a FVF penalty HURTS eBay's competitiveness.

Remember a couple years back when you could search basically any item, and eBay would be priced cheaper than Amazon/Walmart/Etc?

Nowdays, due to Service metrics, sponsored listings, many sellers having to do Free Shipping and Free Returns and so on... add all the costs up and sellers are NOT able to offer cheaper prices on eBay anymore in many cases. 

Buyers have no reason to come to eBay if the prices are not cheaper. They can go elsewhere for faster shipping, delivery and painless returns. 

EBay lost their biggest strength, especially in terms of "new" items. The only place eBay still excels is for niche items that can't be found on other markets. Aside from that... we're at a disadvantage compared to a few years back.

[zamo-zuan]

---

@zamo-zuan wrote:

---

---

But for whatever reason, non-TRS sellers can easily appear on top of search, despite being a "bad" seller.

---

Reading this over and I just wanted to clarify, not being TRS does not always mean you are a bad seller! I didn't want it to seem like I was saying that! There's lots of sellers out there that might not have the bulk of sales or enough recent traffic to be TRS!

It's just that there are sellers out there who do not take care of their customers and are not able to keep TRS because of so many negative statistics. I don't think it's fair to buyers, or to sellers who put in a lot of hard work to take care of their customers, that sellers who do a poor job of taking care of customers are able to appear on top of search. This is one of the worst ways that search has declined recently, in my opinion.

[totoro470]

It's no surprise that their decisions have always favored shareholders at the cost of the sellers AND the buyers. Do you think buyers want to come to ebay to see it flooded with cheap bootleg items in every category? Why wouldn't they just got to Alibaba? ebay is supposed to be an online flea market where regular people sell their stuff. It's not supposed to be one of those flea markets that basically only sells cheap dollar store junk. Unfortunately that seems to be where ebay's policies are taking us.

-I feel you on the clothes department. I used to deliver mail before working on ebay and I had a few people that bought tons of clothes through ebay. The thing is, for every couple shirts I dropped off, I'd pick up at least 1 return. Everyone knows these people buy clothes, wear them, then return them when they're done because there's no real abuse control by ebay.

Want to hear a crazy story? I received an "item not received" case from someone living overseas. I suspect they were doing the scam where they leave the item in customs until after they get their refund but I eventually had to refund them anyways. I blocked this person and moved on. A few months later my sister had a similar issue with a buyer from the same country. I asked her what the account name was and, surprise! It was the same buyer. I have to wonder how many hundreds of items this buyer has stolen. Is it even possible that ebay has no way of detecting this? Even if the claims are legitimate and the buyer's packages always fall in a volcano, why is she still allowed to purchase items? Is there a point where ebay steps in? Is it when 100% of items are returned or marked "item not received"?

[zamo-zuan]

---

@totoro470 wrote:

Want to hear a crazy story? I received an "item not received" case from someone living overseas. I suspect they were doing the scam where they leave the item in customs until after they get their refund but I eventually had to refund them anyways. I blocked this person and moved on. A few months later my sister had a similar issue with a buyer from the same country. I asked her what the account name was and, surprise! It was the same buyer. I have to wonder how many hundreds of items this buyer has stolen. Is it even possible that ebay has no way of detecting this? Even if the claims are legitimate and the buyer's packages always fall in a volcano, why is she still allowed to purchase items? Is there a point where ebay steps in? Is it when 100% of items are returned or marked "item not received"?

---

I have one for ya on that note...

We had a customer who claimed he received an "Empty box" in the mail. But it was under pretty weird circumstances...

For some reason, he was opening the box up on his bathroom floor and taking photos? (Which, btw, was pretty dirty) Also, we had noticed that the paper and packing supplies that we included in the box were still there. But, the paper was folding up tightly, resembling the EXACT shape that the items inside of it were in? This seemed extremely odd, as if he really received an empty box, how would the paper still be in the form of the item it was surrounding...? 

The customer started berating us for "Cheaping out on shipping" and using USPS. Meanwhile, we offered other shipping methods, and he chose the free USPS shipping. Wasn't he the one who "cheaped out" on shipping? The customer went on to say this "always" happens with USPS.

We look at his history, and nearly every feedback (well over 80% of his feedback) was negative with him complaining about sellers shipping and never receiving items!

EBay would not help us, despite any of this, because "Who knows, maybe he has a bad USPS driver in his area?" 

It does defy a bit of logic, though, because if it was really USPS's fault in his area, shouldn't it be required (or shouldn't he take it upon himself) to not use USPS to prevent this type of thing from happening? How is it sellers responsibility that he repeatedly chooses a service that does not deliver to him? And in response to eBay's defense of allowing this, why should sellers be held responsible for this "bad USPS driver in his area"?

So we were trying to follow up for more information and asked for a photo of the shipping label. He replied and said he was on his way to work and will get a photo once he gets to his shop??? Apparently, this guy put his "empty box" with him in his car and took it with him to work?!?!

He finally sends the photos, which he took from the back seat of his vehicle; the vehicle that he purchased auto parts from us for. And sent a few more from his desk, showing the car from the exterior. 

And then we had to give him his refund, at the same time as he was obviously installing the "never received" items to his vehicle.

Oh, and get this. We decided to take a deeper look through his feedback history to see exactly how many people this has happened to. We get to page 6... and we see ourselves! This guy had done the same thing to us a year and a half earlier and apparently we forgot to block him! TWO TIMES this same buyer had ordered from us and claimed he had not received the item! There were dozens and dozens of other sellers this happened to.

Last time I checked, this guy still wasn't banned, and was still doing the same thing on eBay... 

[monstertoybox]

---

@zamo-zuan wrote:

---

Oh, and get this. We decided to take a deeper look through his feedback history to see exactly how many people this has happened to. We get to page 6... and we see ourselves! This guy had done the same thing to us a year and a half earlier and apparently we forgot to block him! TWO TIMES this same buyer had ordered from us and claimed he had not received the item! There were dozens and dozens of other sellers this happened to.

Last time I checked, this guy still wasn't banned, and was still doing the same thing on eBay... 

---

That is ridiculous! 

[writertypes]

luckythewinner wrote:

"eBay is in desperate need of new buyers."

Really? eBay already has multiple TENS and HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of outstanding, honest, fast-paying buyers. eBay just doesn't know how to *properly or strategically* apply them. They're called "sellers."

[nycmodaboutique]

the problem is , when case closed in seller favor, it is still on Service Metrics. 

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

@ittybitnot  Was the part where I said I don’t agree with increased fees unclear? The statement that you cut and pasted?

Do you believe then that sellers should just be allowed on their merry way to rip off or inconvenience other buyers? Sellers who repeatedly disappoint buyers should be dealt with. Maybe put on probation but still charged the same fees.

[asset_liquidators]

Return rate for purchases made online is "over 30%". Other statistics show it to range from "15-40%". 

Ebay begins punishing sellers when they get to somewhere around 4 or 5%. Something seriously wrong with that picture. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with creating a "better buyer experience".  If they truly wanted to create a better buyer experience they would fix their own site problems. More glitches on ebay than any other site on the internet. 

I have clicked on listings only to get a kid with his jacket over his face and a page not found message, then I hit the back button and then proceed to click on it again to find it is an ACTIVE listing. How many buyers hit that back button and never look back? This page not found error happens all the time. I experience it at least once or twice a day.

No, this is nothing more than an ebay money grab.

[zamo-zuan]

---

@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:

Do you believe then that sellers should just be allowed on their merry way to rip off or inconvenience other buyers? Sellers who repeatedly disappoint buyers should be dealt with. Maybe put on probation but still charged the same fees.

---

I believe if this was about sellers inconveniencing buyers, it would be based on decided cases, not claims.

You can't have any form of "justice system" work properly when those being accused can't defend themselves. 

I would absolutely support a system built on decided cases. But as it is? This is in no way or form protecting buyers.

This isn't even considering that the "peers" are all calculated wrong. As an example, the entire Motors site is treated as ONE CATEGORY in service metrics. This means Ignition Coil sellers are being compared to those who sell auto body parts. Ignition Coil manufacturers advertise a 2% defect rate as a strong rate. Ignition Coils are sold 8-10, even 12 per package. EBay currently claims the peer rates are < 1% to stay out of Very High in Motors. 

Does that sound fair to you? Does that protect buyers at all? In reality, all this is doing is saying that any seller who exclusively sells Ignition Coils is going to have an unavoidable FVF penalty.

Please don't be fooled by what eBay claims about this system. If it's true purpose is to protect buyers, then it's an absolute failure, as buyers will still be purchasing from these sellers and have absolutely no idea if they have a penalty or not.

[cellitnow_com]

Ebay’s a joke lol. They’re trying to make money any way possible. They counted defects against me for fraudulent buyers that had their accounts banned after trying to scam me. I looked at my defects before and realized half of them are from scammers trying to get free items

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

Whatever makes sense. I’m not tied to the way the system works (or doesn’t) now. eBay needs some metrics to find the bad sellers. That is all.

[totoro470]

That's an unfortunate story, I wish everyone on ebay could combine their blocked buyers lists so this wouldn't happen to others. You could even get around the more harmless blocked buyers or vindictive sellers by cross referencing the blocked buyers- only those blocked by multiple sellers would get added to the list.

Unfortunately it's probably more against the rules to "name and shame" than it is to abuse the return and "item not as described" systems.

[picknparley]

I realize we got away from the main topic by the OP, but this repeat scammer was too important to pass up. I spoke to my local postmaster about the numerous scams coming through the ebay sales. Her firm recommendation is to report these issues on the USPS website Mail Fraud.  Turning over the address of that repeat scammer to USPS is supposedly the route to be taking. I'd sure be interested to see if that would really work.

There was also a little blurb in my local paper this week: An average of 6,000 people call the Fraud Watch Network helpline every month to report a suspected scam. If you suspect a scam, you can report it at 1-877-908-3360.

Maybe it's time us sellers start fighting back with all the firepower we can.  One person gets the squeak noticed, 100 people gets a drop of oil applied, 1,000's of people get the dang wheel replaced!  If USPS Fraud department started getting multiple reports it might step in and investigate specific addresses.    If the Fraud Network line got multiple reports it might also step in and request deeper changes in the system that we sellers don't have control over. The BBB is already being over-run with complaints about folks being screwed over on ebay sales and purchases. Last I saw there was over 5,600 complaints.  Yes, I checked because ebay's reputation also affects MY reputation as an honest seller.  

Again, my apologies that this was a bit off topic. 

[zamo-zuan]

---

@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:

Whatever makes sense. I’m not tied to the way the system works (or doesn’t) now. eBay needs some metrics to find the bad sellers. That is all.

---

I absolutely agree. But eBay's policy changes regarding this beg the question... why did they ever stop using TRS as the metric that would limit bad sellers from appearing on top of search? 

It worked well. It achieved it's purpose. And now, sellers who have lost TRS and have 70% positive feedback or less can appear on top of search.

Long story short, now they're allowing those "bad sellers" to get more traffic, and simply asking them to pay extra FVF, rather than actually protecting buyers from these types of sellers.

They turned it in to a profit line. Profit > Quality control.