eBay's policy on Shipping & Handling charges feedback

[mikesbestpicks]

I've seen several posts regarding the unjustified negative feedback sellers receive for their shipping and handling charges, but my question is, why does eBay even allow negative shipping and handling feedback when a seller (me) does not charge a handling fee and charges only the eBay subsidized and calculated shipping charge?  Beyond that, why would a buyer even buy an item for which they thought the shipping charges were too high?  The implication is that the item could be purchased elsewhere at the same cost but with lower shipping charges. Should it not be understood by eBay that a buyer, by virtue of the fact that he buys an item, is happy with the shipping charges, and can't buy it elsewhere for less shipping cost? Why would he otherwise buy it?  Is eBay oblivious to the reasonableness of questions such as these and the unreasonableness of their feedback policies? Oh, sorry, I take it all back - they are too busy making money to make reasonable and fair policies.

[castlemagicmemories]

Should it not be understood by eBay that a buyer, by virtue of the fact that he buys an item, is happy with the shipping charges, and can't buy it elsewhere for less shipping cost? Why would he otherwise buy it? 

Technically, you are right.  When a buyer buys, he is agreeing to the shipping charge.  But since it may be that the buyer really wants the item, it can be said that the buyer had no choice but to pay what he thought, and what might be, excessive shipping charges.  That doesn't mean he is happy about paying them, and said buyer may feel it his duty to express this disapproval to others that this may be the seller's practice.  So this gray area comes into play and they allow the buyer to express their opinion of the transaction.  Unfortunately, the buyer could also be wrong and have no idea what current shipping charges for that item may be.  The fact that he thinks it is high may have no basis in reality, as you state.

[mikesbestpicks]

Thank you for your reply. I would agree with your summarization of  eBay reasoning on feedback, were it not for one thing.  I don't determine USPS shipping rates.  In fact, I determine the cheapest possible USPS shipping rates and pass eBay subsidized USPS rates along to my buyers.  By a simple evaluation of

---

---

my listings, that is obvious to eBay, if not to the buyer.  eBay, therefore, is applying illogical and punitive reasoning in their feedback policies.

[castlemagicmemories]

That's true and I know from your OP that you are just charging the rate specified.

That's why I said:

Unfortunately, the buyer could also be wrong and have no idea what current shipping charges for that item may be.  The fact that he thinks it is high may have no basis in reality, as you state.

So going by rates, you would be correct, buyer should not be able to post negative feedback, but Ebay allows the buyer to express their opinion of the transaction, and yes, that is punitive for you.  I am sorry, I wish it were not so.

Perhaps you could call Ebay and ask if they would remove the feedback on the grounds that you charge actual shipping.  Maybe a statement in your listing, that you charge actual shipping; unfortunately shipping has gone up, would help?

[mikesbestpicks]

---

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

That's true and I know from your OP that you are just charging the rate specified.

That's why I said:

Unfortunately, the buyer could also be wrong and have no idea what current shipping charges for that item may be.  The fact that he thinks it is high may have no basis in reality, as you state.

So going by rates, you would be correct, buyer should not be able to post negative feedback, but Ebay allows the buyer to express their opinion of the transaction, and yes, that is punitive for you.  I am sorry, I wish it were not so.

Perhaps you could call Ebay and ask if they would remove the feedback on the grounds that you charge actual shipping.  Maybe a statement in your listing, that you charge actual shipping; unfortunately shipping has gone up, would help?

---

The following is taken verbatim from one of my current listings.  As I said, none of this makes any difference to either the buyer or eBay.

SHIPPING AND HANDLING CHARGES: Many of our products include free shipping, but occasionally we cannot offer free shipping and still come out money ahead.  You will never pay Handling Charges at Mikes Best Picks. Though we certainly have expenses associated with shipping such as packaging materials, labels and fuel, we do NOT pass these expenses on to you, our customers. We receive discounted postage rates from USPS, and we pass those savings on to you, our valued customers, and charge you only what USPS charges us to purchase that postage.

 You will never pay any handling charges, and will pay only the lowest possible postage costs available to us. Please consider this when providing Detailed Seller Ratings (DSR's) for Mikes Best Picks, and thank you very much for your business!

[dhbookds]

I don't see a neg/bad comment on this id........so taking a wild stab here..........

Ebay in the past wouldn't remove any negs or bad comments by buyers......saying it was the buyer opinion which they had a right to express.....gradually, they've amended that policy to the extent none of us (at least me) know what they will/won't remove.  So probably worth your time to call and see if you can talk them into removing the whatever......

Just one point....buyers have NO idea what shipping costs or who is responsible for it......  If they get a 5"x5"x5" box after paying $35 shipping, some WILL complain because they just can't believe it really costs that much to mail.......

My answer has always been.......NO ONE hates high shipping more than I do......and that has always stopped them in their tracks........

[fern*wood]

Are you just referring to your DSRs?  

Personally I feel all the terms of sale in your listings are a big negative.  Talking that much about your shipping costs just draws attention to them and might make some buyers rate you lower no matter what. 

 Do you realize fees are taken out of whatever shipping cost you get from your buyer? If you are passing on your discount and not charging a handling fee, then you are paying part of the shipping out of whatever profit you end up with on your item.

[mam98031]

I've seen several posts regarding the unjustified negative feedback sellers receive for their shipping and handling charges, but my question is, why does eBay even allow negative shipping and handling feedback when a seller (me) does not charge a handling fee and charges only the eBay subsidized and calculated shipping charge? 

As another poster asked, do you mean your DSRs and not negative FB as I don't see that you have any negative FB?

If I follow your logic above, you feel that if a seller does charge a handling fee then getting a low DSR or negative FB is OK?  There is nothing wrong with charging a handling fee, that is why it is called Shipping and Handling.  Handling is a VERY NORMAL thing.  

How does Ebay "subsidize" shipping?

Most of the time it is just that buyers don't understand that there are more costs to shipping other than the carrier charge.  

But the bright side is that if you are actually talking about DSRs, they don't count against a seller in their monthly eval anymore and that is a good thing.  They do not create defects.

[mam98031]

You may want to consider some adjustments to your listing descriptions.

SHIPPING AND HANDLING CHARGES: Many of our products include free shipping, but occasionally we cannot offer free shipping and still come out money ahead.  You will never pay Handling Charges at Mikes Best Picks. Though we certainly have expenses associated with shipping such as packaging materials, labels and fuel, we do NOT pass these expenses on to you, our customers. We receive discounted postage rates from USPS, and we pass those savings on to you, our valued customers, and charge you only what USPS charges us to purchase that postage.

 You will never pay any handling charges, and will pay only the lowest possible postage costs available to us. Please consider this when providing Detailed Seller Ratings (DSR's) for Mikes Best Picks, and thank you very much for your business!

First you assume or at the very least make it appear  that charging a handling fee is somehow a bad thing or that a seller that does charge this is a bit shady.  Which has absolutely UNTRUE.

If you have made the choice not to include your handling costs in your shipping charges or in your calculation when you formulate your product price, then you are simply taking it out of your profit.  Not an advisable move, but it is your decision to make.  

[castlemagicmemories]

---

@mikesbestpicks wrote:

---

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

That's true and I know from your OP that you are just charging the rate specified.

That's why I said:

Unfortunately, the buyer could also be wrong and have no idea what current shipping charges for that item may be.  The fact that he thinks it is high may have no basis in reality, as you state.

So going by rates, you would be correct, buyer should not be able to post negative feedback, but Ebay allows the buyer to express their opinion of the transaction, and yes, that is punitive for you.  I am sorry, I wish it were not so.

Perhaps you could call Ebay and ask if they would remove the feedback on the grounds that you charge actual shipping.  Maybe a statement in your listing, that you charge actual shipping; unfortunately shipping has gone up, would help?

---

The following is taken verbatim from one of my current listings.  As I said, none of this makes any difference to either the buyer or eBay.

SHIPPING AND HANDLING CHARGES: Many of our products include free shipping, but occasionally we cannot offer free shipping and still come out money ahead.  You will never pay Handling Charges at Mikes Best Picks. Though we certainly have expenses associated with shipping such as packaging materials, labels and fuel, we do NOT pass these expenses on to you, our customers. We receive discounted postage rates from USPS, and we pass those savings on to you, our valued customers, and charge you only what USPS charges us to purchase that postage.

 You will never pay any handling charges, and will pay only the lowest possible postage costs available to us. Please consider this when providing Detailed Seller Ratings (DSR's) for Mikes Best Picks, and thank you very much for your business!

---

That's pretty explicit, and really sad that it didn't work.  I think you could cut it down a bit, though.  Just something basic that you never pay handling charges with you.  Judging by your verbiage, I see you may mean DSRs.  Whether DSRs or feedback, I understand you feel it is not fair and you don't like it.  Really sorry how things worked out.  Maybe the buyer left it for the wrong seller?

[juststuffisell]

It's a good question. I suppose that is to allow buyers to show their displeasure with having to pay what they deem a ridiculously high amount for shipping.

If you charge the fully discounted eBay shipping rate with no handling fee, I can't see where a buyer has anything to cry about.

I charge a 40 cent handling fee on 1st class packages and 1.00 are parcels. That is just to offset some of my packaging costs and gas. I don't discount at all.
I charge on many items anywhere from 7 dollars to 30 dollars for shipping on a flat rate schedule. I've not had a complaint from buyers about that either.

As one poster noted, I hate high shipping charges, especially when I have to eat them. I was losing about 1500.00 a year on shipping and just decided no more.

I just don't see the purpose of putting anything in a listing about the cost of shipping etc etc. It costs what it costs and so you have to charge what you are going to charge unless you are doing free shipping. Then, the buyer is going to pay that shipping in the purchase price.

Not a lot you can do out side of printing the cost to ship on the label and highlighting it for the buyer to see in fact - shipping costs 3 bucks and you were charged 3 bucks kind of thing.

Cheers

[mountainmommie]

It is a misnomer to assume a buyer is happy with shipping because they agree to a price. People receive a package and can make any variable decisions about that delivery. It may come wrapped like carp and now a price I'm happy with I'm not so happy with. People make assumptions based on a price. Whether or not you THINK they should is irrelevant and will definitely be reflected in that DSR. 

I am convinced I have maintained 5's across the board for all these years because I EXCEED expectations. We just don't live in world anymore where meeting them gets the job done.

Ditch the lecture in the TOS. Consider it on returns also. I get where you're coming from but it just ain't the way it works. Somebody who's legit will work with you, somebody who isn't ... eBay is gonna back 9 times outta 10. 

PS - Shout out to Montrose. From Parker.  Telluride = favorite place to ski ... almost ever.

[mountainmommie]

I should restate what I said better. Lots of people exceed expectations. I didn't mean to imply I'm the only one. My point is that leave the TOS simple so people think simple (because most people do) and then surprise them with better.

Got it? 

[hargan]

Ditto to the other comments made on this thread. Please allow my two cent's worth: We all have to face the fact that no matter what one does, one will never please all the people all the time. We're lucky if we please some of the people some of the time. Unfortunately, being usually a buyer and sometimes seller, I see the trend that for most people shopping on eBay is that they want to get something for nothing, and that includes shipping.  They'll see an item and make the most ridiculous low ball offer, which includes Free shipping and they want more.  When you counteroffer, they don't respond. The best is when they buy something really small and inexpensive, really cheap and get free shipping. They have buyer's remorse because they didn't get the price they wanted to pay and then say it doesn't work just to get a refund. Personally, if I see an item is what I consider to be priced too high for shipping I move on. I don't complain. But that's me. I also always leave feedback, which not many know how to do anymore, but that is a topic for another thread. Don't sweat the small things. 

[mr_lincoln]

@mikesbestpicks   Absolutely agree with you 100% ... and oh, by the way, those "subsidized and calculated shipping charge"s ... well, lean in close, I have a story to tell you.  This just happened in the last two weeks and I will round prices up or down a buck just to make it easy.  Shipped a 20 lbs item coast to coast Priority Mail.  Counter price for Buyer $ 79.  Seller cost (before adding insurance) $ 64.  Buyer returned the item, pre-paid Priority Mail label sent to Buyer through the return process ... are you ready, are you sitting down ... cost to eBay $ 32 ... let's repeat that as you pick yourself up off the floor $ 32.

So tell me, how in the world does eBay, pay 1/2 the Seller's discounted price for shipping the same item the same weight and the same distance?  And, that price is LESS then 1/2 the counter price.

Oh my friend, there is truly "subsidizing" going on but its obvious that Buyers and Sellers are subsidizing everybody else ... make no mistake, shipping costs could be lower for Buyers.  If eBay only has to pay that much then surely a label printed thorugh eBay for a sold item has a lot of fluff in it ... that "discount" we get, yep, still a lot of room between it and what I imagine the "real" cost is ... so all I can say is while Sellers are being charged a FVF on shipping there is still a lot of money on the table being taken by someone else ... care to wager who?