eBay refuses to acknowledge / support charge back scam

[jdubb33025]

Casual Seller for Last 15 years

I recently sold my Macbook Pro on eBay through a normal auction. Sent package with tracking and signed delivery. Many weeks later, eBay informs me that the user (outside of eBay / Paypal) decided to file a charge back and claims the laptop was not the correct condition/version/type and are looking for a refund. They didn't provide any imagery - but claimed to eBay that I "locked" them out of their own account and that I AM in fact a scammer. During the dispute process, eBay requires you to provide documentation / imagery to support that I did in fact send the right item. However, it only allows a single image upload and no supporting text? 

Meanwhile, while this dispute is happening - I receive a box in the mail from an address similar to the one I sent it to. In it is a frying pan wrapped in adult diapers...great, I already know that the user is going to claim they sent it back with supporting tracking number.

See package image below:

I contacted support via telephone to let them this know that this was all occurring and they continued to reiterate that this information would be used in the dispute - however, refused to accept any of my additional documents / images to support it.

This week - I receive a message from another user who claims to be the previous user who said that they used an intermediary freight company and explained exactly what they did to me. Attempted to forward this to eBay and they said, it's out of their hands and the banks will decide. WHY?! You are the intermediary of this all - why can't you even remotely attempt to solve a very clear cut case of fraud occurring.

See image below of message I received - take note that this message contradicts the original claim they made to the bank about the laptop being the wrong version / condition / model but instead says that they received a frying pan from me. Even in the worst case scenario - in which they did in fact receive a frying pan - how am I responsible if they are an international buyer using an intermediary freight company. Isn't this something they should have resolved with them?

So now eBay sides with this person and not only is attempting to withdraw the funds from my account - but more than I ever received to begin with. It's absolutely maddening that not a single support person could even talk through this with me - but instead reiterate that its out of their hands as a result of this being a banking issue. THIS ISSUE IS A RESULT OF YOU FORCING US TO USE BANK ACCOUNTS and they don't even have a process in place to resolve this.

I sold this laptop to upgrade as a result of needing it for a job that I need to survive. Not only am I without the funds but I am without the original laptop as well. Super incredibly saddened by the result of this and the ultimate lack of empathy and support by eBay despite me calling and waiting on hold, every day for the last two weeks and having them refuse to accept any of the above documentation. 

The whole switch to a connected bank account has made this disaster and puts eBay in the  position of arbitrator, yet they pass this off as something I need to resolve on my end. They want me to contact my police department or fraud organization when this something they could resolve instantaneously. Just an excuse for me to stop bothering them.

Let this be a notice to everyone - that this is the support you get when you're just trying to get by.

[jdubb33025]

Additional support - here is the original dispute from the buyer to show that all the stories are all over the place:

[katzrul15]

Where is the claim currently?  A chargeback thru Paypal that you lost on 8/16/21?

Have you tried reaching out to e-Bay on social media?

If you can, summarize (bullet points work best) for e-Bay what occurred.  You shipped the macbook to the Buyer via a freight-forwarder, correct?  Really wish you had posted to us on the board while this was unfolding vs after it was decided.  

I am not certain e-Bay will work to assist you on this - there are several moving parts.  You will need to verify for e-Bay that the Buyer used a freight-forwarder (I am guessing that is what you are calling an "intermediary freight company". 

https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness

Good luck to you.  I think it would be helpful if you could summarize with dates/timeline, etc.  It is a little hard to follow everything you have posted.  Good luck!

ETA: 1) have for formally reported the buyer to e-Bay?  If no, do that in the transaction view and state the buyer does not qualify for the MBG due to the use of a freight-forwarder.   2) When you submit this on social media, use the "message" button and be sure to outline your Selling ID info, transaction number, etc.

[ciscokid1963]

Mail fraud is a federal offense. I would search "how to report mail fraud" and let the Fed's take care of it.

[kensgiftshop]

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@jdubb33025 wrote:

THIS ISSUE IS A RESULT OF YOU FORCING US TO USE BANK ACCOUNTS and they don't even have a process in place to resolve this.

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It has nothing to do with Managed Payments.

It has to do with the buyer filing a claim with their credit card.

The outcome would have been the same either way.

[jdubb33025]

I agree with you and I will be doing so - but truthfully - how can eBay just ignore this? They are also receiving a cut from all of this by charging me the full amount...how is. ebay not complicit. After all the conversations I've had with support...

[bangordiscount]

OP,

I'm sorry this happened to you.

Unfortunately these forums are riddled with *compensated* sympathizers who will passively defend eBay by saying that somehow, someway this is your fault and you're guilty of selling something you couldn't afford to lose.

They'll tell you to block international buyers and avoid selling high scam items, like apple products of laptops.

While there is some wisdom there, you deserve better and the system failed.

The chargeback resolution system is flawed, and less seller friendly then what was used by PayPal. Some scams you can defend yourself against, this is not one of those.

With a lot of legwork, you can attempt to get eBay's attention with an appeal. I'm not sure what changes eBay has taken since dropping PayPal (do they even allow appeals?) and going the route of Managed Payments (MP) but in the past I've successfully fought decisions like yours with PayPal as the intermediary by doing the following:

File a local police report. You're doing this just to get a case #; the police won't actually do anything. You can also file with the internet crimes department:

https://www.ic3.gov/

Do you have a copy of your original shipping label showing weight and dimensions? I always keep this for the below reason:

If you ship a 16x12x8 box with a weight of 8lb and the buyer sends something back considerably smaller or lighter, and you can prove that... it adds to your favor.

It seems like your buyer tried to send something back that was of similar size and weight so I'm guessing he has done this before.

Check the origin of the package you received from the buyer, and if it was sent back from the U.S. and they live outside the U.S. that can also play in your favor. Often they'll purchase an item on Amazon and send it back and use that as the return tracking requirement.

Bottom line is that eBay's resolution process for chargebacks is not set up to protect the seller in any way what-so-ever and this needs to change.

The eBay dispute processes is skewed towards the buyer, and the credit card company is going to favor their customer (i.e. the buyer) so there is very little protection left for you.

[flyingmvp]

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Let this be a notice to everyone - that this is the support you get when you're just trying to get by.

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Sorry for your pain, 

Ebay got their commission...

 Just this week,  CEO Iannone (he's also trying to get by)  said that he wants to shift the focus on higher ASP (Average Selling Price) items.

Isn't that ironic?

[jdubb33025]

Thanks for the honest response. I agree with you on all fronts - just wish that the seller could be more involved in the chargeback dispute but instead made to feel helpless, waiting for a result to occur. I have everything from the shipment, all the original details and such as I know that these things occur more often than one would like.

[jdubb33025]

The claim has been decided - in favor of the buyer.  I have not contacted ebay via social media but that may be a good next step. And yes - I should timeline this out. I was not aware that the address I was sending to was a freight forwarding service but upon a lookup after the fact, it was. I have formally reported the user whose account seems to be suspended, but instead they are reaching out to me via another account...

And I agree - I should have been on top of this sooner. The dispute occurred weeks after it was sold and I truthfully did not expect ebay to pretty much refuse the additional documentation I was attempting to provide them.

[jhr-4800]

Like other people have point out. Do the following.

File a Police Report for Theft. File a report with USPS for theft on top of that report them to Internet Crimes as well. Once you have done all of the above, contact eBay with all of the documentation.

USPS Theft Link:
https://ehome.uspis.gov/fcsexternal/default.aspx

Internet Crimes department Link:

https://www.ic3.gov

[tdumonde2014]

Unfortunately there is no winning a SNAD Chargeback, PayPal never covered this and neither will eBay. EBay has no say in the matter and the cc company informs eBay of their decision, which I suspect the buyer wins 99% of the time. Filing a claim for fraud with anyone isn't going to do much good if there buyer is in a foreign country. Posters tell sellers not to sell anything on ebay that they can't afford to lose so that they can make an informed decision. Sorry this happened to you, but as long as there is no protection against this form of fraud, it's seller be ware.

[luckythewinner]

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@jdubb33025 wrote:

Let this be a notice to everyone - that this is the support you get when you're just trying to get by.

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I agree - you will get absolutely no seller protection for the situation you find yourself in. None. eBay's Payment Dispute Seller Protection even says so.

The eBay policy is very clear that eBay only offers seller protection against SNAD payment disputes when you have already refunded the buyer or already won a SNAD case against the buyer. That's it.

That is it.

When a buyer opens a payment dispute because the item doesn't match the listing

When a buyer opens a payment dispute because the item they received doesn't match the listing, sellers will be asked to provide evidence to challenge the payment dispute, such as photographs showing the item's condition prior to shipment.

When determining whether to protect a seller, eBay will look for one of the following:

• The seller issued a full refund to the buyer through eBay
• The seller issued a partial refund to the buyer through eBay in accordance with our partial refund guidelines
• An eBay Money Back Guarantee case of the same type for the same transaction was decided against the buyer, or resolved with a full refund to the buyer

If eBay determines that the transaction is eligible for protections, we will not seek reimbursement from the seller for the disputed amount, even if the payment institution decides that the buyer is owed a refund and
We will waive or refund the seller's dispute fee.

If your scammer had been "nice" enough to file an unrecognized transaction dispute, you would at least have had a chance that eBay would cover the refund.

[68barbie]

PayPal, through the buyer's CC company, would at least require the buyer to return the item. I had a chargeback claim that was beyond eBay's 30 day MBG but within PayPal's 180 days timeframe. PayPal mediated and the CC company told the buyer to return the item. The buyer refused and I ultimately "won" the claim. I put "won" in air quotes because I was still slapped with a $20 chargeback fee but at least I didn't lose all my money AND the item. 

I wonder why the buyer in the above case went the CC chargeback route instead of a MBG claim? It sounds like all activity might have transpired within the last 30 days so they'd been eligible.

-C

[jdubb33025]

Seems like you're right. I feel ill about the whole situation - guess I need to get off of eBay because I'm obviously not cut out for it.