eBay let buyer return an item and it was sent to a wrong address and it was lost!

[roy8765]

Around a month ago, I sold a used laptop on eBay, clearly mentioning in the item description that the battery was not good and it could hold only about half an hour of charge (to the best of my knowlege) and that returns were not accepted.  The buyer claimed that the battery was bad and requested a return which I declined.  However, eBay let the buyer return it and they even provided a return address to him which was 11 years old without asking me first and the laptop was sent to a wrong address.  I never received the laptop and for all practical purposes, the ~$250 laptop is lost!  I appealed eBay's decision multiple times and they always rejected my appeal and forced me to fully refund the buyer plus shipping.  Eventually I asked for their legal department and I'm considering suing eBay in a small claims court.  What are my options and chances of success here?  Any advice from the community and the sellers who have been in this situation?

This is a pretty clear mess up on eBay's part....  They turned a long time customer into an active enemy!  Any lawyers who would like to take this case on my behalf?

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

A laptop is a portable computer designed to be used with a battery and or a plug. The plug usually charges the battery so the laptop can be used for several hours in places where space may be an issue or where there are no plugs....on the road, in cars, airplanes etc.
There are definition of what a laptop is...and by manufacturers no less.

Your laptop cannot be used in the manner it is created to be used....portably. It will not run for very long with a bad battery...it will shut down as soon as the battery is dead...and not run for the amount of hours it is intended to run on the battery. Plugging it in will also not fully charge the battery as it is intended to do...again because it is not fully functional.

[coffeebean832]

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@roy8765 wrote:

Look, $300 is a lot of money for me to pass.  The buyer could ask for a return for any other reason under INAD but not the battery because it was clearly mentioned in the item description.  Therefore eBay didn’t have a just cause to let the buyer return the item due to the “No Returns” policy and they’re on the hook for my damages.

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Buyer said the battery was "bad" and that could mean it was completely dead and wouldn't hold a charge for 5 minutes let alone 30.

Laptops are portable units and if the battery won't hold a charge for at least a couple of hours then it should be listed as parts / not working - or better yet buy a new battery then sell the laptop as used with a new battery.

@roy8765 wrote:

And a battery is not an essential component of a laptop. It works even without a battery. Therefore it was a fully functional laptop!

It may have been fully functional as a desktop but not as a laptop. Laptop equates with portable. Dead (or 5%) battery removes an essential function.

@roy8765 wrote:
Why does everyone say I made a mistake?

Because you made several mistakes.

You failed to use the correct item condition. That wouldn't have been the end of the world except...

You failed to communicate with the buyer.

You failed to learn about the MBG and seller policies.

You failed to read the user agreement.

You failed to update your address in the last 11 years.

You failed to file for mail forwarding with USPS when you saw the package was being sent to your old residence.

This thread is up to 14 pages which shows you are currently failing to take actions based on the help you've been given. You are currently failing to take responsibility for your fault in the case. You are currently failing to accept what happened, learn, and move on.

Whether or not the buyer failed to read the description is in question because their claim that the battery was "bad" could mean it was completely dead when they received it. It's a moot point since your real issue stemmed from your failure to update your address.

@roy8765 wrote:
Why do I have to suffer ~$300 damages because of this mess up on eBay's part?!

eBay did not mess up, you did. You may not see eye-to-eye with eBay's policies, but you did agree to abide by those policies when you used their services to list and sell your item.

@roy8765 wrote:
Also, the fact that the buyer may be trying to pouch my returned laptop now shows his character when he requested a return and refund the first time around... Unfortunately a bad buyer started all this and eBay let him do it.

You don't have proof that the buyer's claim was false. You don't have proof that the buyer is in posession of the laptop.

Send a message the buyer and tell them the return address was incorrect - ask if the laptop was returned to them. Offer to send a prepaid shipping label so they can return it to your current address. You may still be able to recover your laptop and sell it locally for cash.

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

For parts or not working: An item that does not function as intended and is not fully operational. This includes items that are defective in ways that render them difficult to use, items that require service or repair, or items missing essential components


Your item was CLEARLY required to be listed for parts or repair...it required a new battery and does not function as it was intend to function which is as a portable computer, not as a desktop computer, that can run for several hours on the battery and that will fully charge the battery when plugged in. It is also difficult to use as a portable computer when the battery is not functional and will shut down in a very short amount of time and cannot be fully charged when plugged in

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

A fully functional battery is an essential part of a portable computer that is intended to run for several hours on a battery.

[readabouthorses]

If you are gonna post the definition of the condition then post it all.

For parts or not working: An item that does not function as intended and is not fully operational. This includes items that are defective in ways that render them difficult to use, items that require service or repair, or items missing essential components. See the seller's listing for full details.

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

Yes....sellers are supposed to describe the item in the item description to including the details of the condition (this part applies in all categories and all listings) and that does not change the fact that Part and Repair is the correct category to have listed the item...which was the point.
I pointed out the part that was being ignored....and why.

[roy8765]

You may be aware that ~50% of all this 14 pages are by 2 people (which I'm not one of them!)

I'm still not convinced that eBay wasn't at fault here. It's time for eBay to wake up and change its ways before it's too late... Exactly incidents like this mean that eBay is NOT a good place to sell. Independent and impartial sellers have better options nowadays. I personally will never sell on eBay again and I'll do my best to inform as many people as I can about this. eBay is making a big mistake by allowing bad buyers take advantage of it. eBay loses even if it wins here!

[missjen831]

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@coffeebean832 wrote:

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@roy8765 wrote:

Look, $300 is a lot of money for me to pass.  The buyer could ask for a return for any other reason under INAD but not the battery because it was clearly mentioned in the item description.  Therefore eBay didn’t have a just cause to let the buyer return the item due to the “No Returns” policy and they’re on the hook for my damages.

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Buyer said the battery was "bad" and that could mean it was completely dead and wouldn't hold a charge for 5 minutes let alone 30.

Laptops are portable units and if the battery won't hold a charge for at least a couple of hours then it should be listed as parts / not working - or better yet buy a new battery then sell the laptop as used with a new battery.

@roy8765 wrote:

And a battery is not an essential component of a laptop. It works even without a battery. Therefore it was a fully functional laptop!

It may have been fully functional as a desktop but not as a laptop. Laptop equates with portable. Dead (or 5%) battery removes an essential function.

@roy8765 wrote:
Why does everyone say I made a mistake?

Because you made several mistakes.

You failed to use the correct item condition. That wouldn't have been the end of the world except...

You failed to communicate with the buyer.

You failed to learn about the MBG and seller policies.

You failed to read the user agreement.

You failed to update your address in the last 11 years.

You failed to file for mail forwarding with USPS when you saw the package was being sent to your old residence.

This thread is up to 14 pages which shows you are currently failing to take actions based on the help you've been given. You are currently failing to take responsibility for your fault in the case. You are currently failing to accept what happened, learn, and move on.

Whether or not the buyer failed to read the description is in question because their claim that the battery was "bad" could mean it was completely dead when they received it. It's a moot point since your real issue stemmed from your failure to update your address.

@roy8765 wrote:
Why do I have to suffer ~$300 damages because of this mess up on eBay's part?!

eBay did not mess up, you did. You may not see eye-to-eye with eBay's policies, but you did agree to abide by those policies when you used their services to list and sell your item.

@roy8765 wrote:
Also, the fact that the buyer may be trying to pouch my returned laptop now shows his character when he requested a return and refund the first time around... Unfortunately a bad buyer started all this and eBay let him do it.

You don't have proof that the buyer's claim was false. You don't have proof that the buyer is in posession of the laptop.

Send a message the buyer and tell them the return address was incorrect - ask if the laptop was returned to them. Offer to send a prepaid shipping label so they can return it to your current address. You may still be able to recover your laptop and sell it locally for cash.

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Even if the OP put in a forwarding order when he saw the package was sent to he wrong address, he wouldn’t have gotten the laptop back. It apparently takes a minimum of 2 weeks for mail to start being forwarded. Just went through it with my MILs mail. Takes 2-4 weeks!!!

[roy8765]

Also, quickly searching through eBay laptop listings I found at least 4 other listings with the same situation.  If I inform eBay, is it gonna remove those listings now because they’re incorrectly listed under Used?  Including ALL future such laptop listings?  

See, this is a game that eBay cannot win.  eBay has oppened a can of warms by its unfair INAD decision....

[lyan9337]

Ebay already won. You just can't see it.

[roy8765]

Thanks for letting everyone know you were a judge! Many of the eBay sellers that I’ve talked to are not happy with their experience which is in stark contrast to the sentiment on this board where selleres staunchly defend eBay! This is obviously not an unbiased discussion forum...

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

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@roy8765 wrote:
Thanks for letting everyone know you were a judge! Many of the eBay sellers that I’ve talked to are not happy with their experience which is in stark contrast to the sentiment on this board where selleres staunchly defend eBay! This is obviously not an unbiased discussion forum...

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No one here said anything about their happiness or unhappiness with ebay so you are not even reading what is said her either and no one defended ebay...you were presented with the facts and policies and the reason why.
You cannot just turn around and attack / lash out because it is not what you want to hear....it doesn't work and it doesn't change anything.

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

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@roy8765 wrote:

Also, quickly searching through eBay laptop listings I found at least 4 other listings with the same situation.  If I inform eBay, is it gonna remove those listings now because they’re incorrectly listed under Used?  Including ALL future such laptop listings?  

See, this is a game that eBay cannot win.  eBay has oppened a can of warms by its unfair INAD decision....

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If that is the case then they have also set themselves up for problems...returns/disputes etc

If you were trying to go with that it was OK for you to do it because a couple others did it....that is not a valid excuse. We are not in grade school anymore.

No they are probably not going to remove them. They have provided protection for buyers if listings are incorrect and such.....in the form of item not as described disputes and returns/refunds.
Sellers are required to post in accordance with ebay rules...if they do not then they may experience consequenses.

Ebay also has seller performace standards that must be met...if you keep listing incorrectly, buyers will file more disputes and getting refunds and you will keep getting your perfomance standards dinged to the point where you will pay more in fees and eventually not be allowed to sell.

You should really take the time to read about the site you are selling on and learn the policies you are required to follow and the consequnses if you do not.......You AGREED to every one of them.

And the issue is still that you agreed to the dispute process as it is written and gave ebay permission to decide the outcomes if the cases get escalated ...no court will ever ingore this fact.

[roy8765]

That’s the whole point!  If eBay claims to be a neutral platform, it has a duty to protect sellers interests as well as buyers.  If eBay knows that some listings are incorrect and still allows bad buyers to take advantage of sellers, it’d be complicit in buyers actions.  Sellers need to know that eBay currently only protects buyers interests such as in my case where the buyer requested an illegitimate return and now may even be trying to pouch my laptop for free....

[lyan9337]

eBay expect seller to take responsibility for their listings. In fact they actually include a blurb about that and every single listing