eBay let buyer return an item and it was sent to a wrong address and it was lost!

[roy8765]

Around a month ago, I sold a used laptop on eBay, clearly mentioning in the item description that the battery was not good and it could hold only about half an hour of charge (to the best of my knowlege) and that returns were not accepted.  The buyer claimed that the battery was bad and requested a return which I declined.  However, eBay let the buyer return it and they even provided a return address to him which was 11 years old without asking me first and the laptop was sent to a wrong address.  I never received the laptop and for all practical purposes, the ~$250 laptop is lost!  I appealed eBay's decision multiple times and they always rejected my appeal and forced me to fully refund the buyer plus shipping.  Eventually I asked for their legal department and I'm considering suing eBay in a small claims court.  What are my options and chances of success here?  Any advice from the community and the sellers who have been in this situation?

This is a pretty clear mess up on eBay's part....  They turned a long time customer into an active enemy!  Any lawyers who would like to take this case on my behalf?

[castlemagicmemories]

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@roy8765 wrote:
So, even if the battery was say at 50% capacity, I couldn't sell it as Used even though it was mentioned in the item description?! I call this a scam! And I reiterate, here is full of eBay cronies. Real sellers don't defend eBay so unreasonably and fervently....

Of course you are free to believe whatever you want.  Just because no one told you you were right does not mean that they are wrong.  Posters here did not validate your opinions, but that does not mean they are Ebay employees or cronies.  They just look at the facts and the policies and post accordingly.

Many have had your reaction when they did not hear what they wanted to hear.  They did not get the vindication they thought they would so they lashed out at the posters.  

You can notify the mods and ask them to lock the thread since it is not accomplishing your purpose.  Just click the three dots to the top right of the OP, choose the last option, report inappropriate content, then type in, I am the OP and wish to lock the thread.  The mods will do that.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@roy8765 wrote:
So, even if the battery was say at 50% capacity, I couldn't sell it as Used even though it was mentioned in the item description?! I call this a scam! And I reiterate, here is full of eBay cronies. Real sellers don't defend eBay so unreasonably and fervently....

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You're free to call it whatever you will.

Had you had the right address listed, your laptop would have come back to you.

Sorry that didn't happen.

[castlemagicmemories]

I agree with you.

Selling on Ebay is extremely dangerous if you don't update your address and know policy, how to list, what the MBG is and your responsibilities under it.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@roy8765 wrote:
I clearly had mentioned that the battery was not good. Why should I have to pay for the carelessness of the buyer? Also, why doesn't eBay confirm the return address with the seller first?

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They don't confirm because buyers and sellers are supposed to have accurate contact information on file.  Thus there should be nothing to confirm.  They expect users to take responsibility to change these things as warranted.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@roy8765 wrote:
Because I occasionally use eBay and I have had 100% rating before this major screw-up by eBay.... Not only they're at fault for letting the buyer return the laptop, but also they provided a wrong return address without confirming it with me. I'm highly motivated to expose their questionable business practices and shady reputation.

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Here's what would happen.  Ebay would point to the MBG, that throws your incorrect listing out, since you stated used, which means fully functioning, yet the description admits it isn't working right.  Listing inconsistency, point buyer, point ebay.  And they would point to the rule requiring correct contact info to be on file, that throws that out.  You would have received it back had you had the right info on file.  Point ebay.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@roy8765 wrote:
The bigger and root-cause problem here is that why the heck eBay lets lazy or fraudulent buyers return stuff with their "No Returns" policy? The buyer has already accepted the risk when ordering the item. I personally never buy "No Returns" items, but when a buyer does, it should be their sole responsibility.... I absolutely will never sell anything on eBay again and I now actively advise all my friends to refrain from doing so.

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You can list under no returns but the MBG overrides that.  SNADS come under the MBG.  Your buyer filed SNAD because it didn't work properly.  

The Ebay MBG logo is on almost every page~get the item you ordered, or your money back.  Includes purchase price and original shipping.

So you pay for the return shipping and refund the purchase price and original shipping.

Sorry you were not aware of this.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@roy8765 wrote:

And are you an eBay agent? Are you a corporation lobbyist or advocate?

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Jason, is there something you haven't been telling us?

[castlemagicmemories]

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@roy8765 wrote:
"No Returns" policy should be clear: no returns are possible. Why is eBay playing with words? Why do they mislead sellers by naming it that way? They should name it "Limited Returns" policy not "No Returns" policy. They are guilty of deceit and misleading sellers by their agreement.

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No, most know that no returns just applies to buyer's remorse reasons, and that the MBG is there for buyer protection against getting items that don't work properly and are not as described.

Sorry you didn't know that.

[roy8765]

So, are you saying that a Used laptop is supposed to have a 100% capacity (i.e. new) battery even if it is mentioned otherwise in its item description?! And how can it possibly be "Item Not As Described"? Show me where in MBG there's such a rule or clause. I want a precise link. Don't make rules up please! This is not even logical. I'm not new to eBay. I've been selling stuff on eBay for years and never had heard such nonsensical stuff. That's why I think your defense of eBay is highly suspicious. And if this is really the rule, maybe it is about the time for it to be changed! I'm sure judges can decide better on such cases. I now definitely need to talk to a lawyer on this case. This is not ordinary circumstances. I'm afraid eBay has messed with the wrong guy in this case!

[castlemagicmemories]

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@roy8765 wrote:

So, are you saying that a Used laptop is supposed to have a 100% capacity (i.e. new) battery even if it is mentioned otherwise in its item description?! And how can it possibly be "Item Not As Described"? Show me where in MBG there's such a rule or clause. I want a precise link. Don't make rules up please! This is not even logical. I'm not new to eBay. I've been selling stuff on eBay for years and never had heard such nonsensical stuff. That's why I think your defense of eBay is highly suspicious. And if this is really the rule, maybe it is about the time for it to be changed! I'm sure judges can decide better on such cases. I now definitely need to talk to a lawyer on this case. This is not ordinary circumstances. I'm afraid eBay has messed with the wrong guy in this case!

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OP, no one on this thread is making up rules.  I'm very sorry you were not aware of them, but no one here can change that now.  You may have been selling on Ebay for years but unfortunately you don't know policy and you don't know that you agreed to these policies.  There is so much more to selling on Ebay than just throwing up listings, getting paid, packing and shipping.  You have to know policy.  I'm a buyer but I know seller and buyer policies because I have been on Ebay for years and I know the policies of the site I use.  I, and many other posters, stay up to date by reading the Seller Updates (you do know about them, don't you?) and announcements and spending time on the Boards.

The fact is you listed it incorrectly~used is fully functioning, and in the same listing, you admitted it was not fully functioning.  There is no leg to stand on there.

The MBG states, and you can check this yourself as it is on your listing, no need for me to post a link to it, GET THE ITEM YOU ORDERED OR YOUR MONEY BACK.

Buyer did not get a fully functioning item, hence SNAD, INAD, hence you pay for the return.

You didn't update your info so Ebay had the wrong address.  

That's all there is to it.  Just how it works as every poster in this thread has told you.  It is what it is.  

I hope you can get your laptop back.  Your effort in that direction could help get it back to you.  Good Luck.

[castlemagicmemories]

've been selling stuff on eBay for years and never had heard such nonsensical stuff. That's why I think your defense of eBay is highly suspicious.

*****************************************************************************************************

If you don't keep up with announcements and Seller Updates, or update your address, then of course you will never have heard of these things.  

That isn't why you think my defense of Ebay is highly suspicious.  You think everyone's defense of Ebay is highly suspicious because we don't agree with you, because we do know policy and how things work.

Your perogative but please don't judge posters here just because you aren't hearing what you want to hear.

Good Luck to you.   Thank you for posting.

[yuzuha]

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@roy8765 wrote:

So, are you saying that a Used laptop is supposed to have a 100% capacity (i.e. new) battery even if it is mentioned otherwise in its item description?! And how can it possibly be "Item Not As Described"? Show me where in MBG there's such a rule or clause. I want a precise link. Don't make rules up please! This is not even logical. I'm not new to eBay.

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https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/listings/creating-managing-listings/item-conditions-category?id=47...

Right there.  More precisely, "Used: An item that has been used previously. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended."

[roy8765]

You didn't answer my question: Is a Used laptop supposed to have a 100% capacity (i.e. new) battery even if it is clearly mentioned otherwise in its item description?! The buyer got exactly what was described and what he'd ordered, yet he was allowed to return it.

I'm sure if eBay is found guilty of misconduct in this forced return case, it doesn't matter that I didn't have an updated return address. Any way they will have to reimburse my full expenses (~$300) plus some. (Possibly a lot lot more than that!) This is a trouble that eBay has caused for itself by its incompetence. Trust me, I'm no naive person. If I know I have a good legal case I'll pursue it to the maximum extent possible under the law.

[dilo-8873]

Roy,

This is just a question, out of curiosity, as I have no horse in this race. When you printed the shipping label, it has your return address, did you take notice at the time if your return address was correct? 

[irinahat]

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@roy8765 wrote:
You didn't answer my question: Is a Used laptop supposed to have a 100% capacity (i.e. new) battery even if it is clearly mentioned otherwise in its item description?! The buyer got exactly what was described and what he'd ordered, yet he was allowed to return it.

I'm sure if eBay is found guilty of misconduct in this forced return case, it doesn't matter that I didn't have an updated return address. Any way they will have to reimburse my full expenses (~$300) plus some. (Possibly a lot lot more than that!) This is a trouble that eBay has caused for itself by its incompetence. Trust me, I'm no naive person. If I know I have a good legal case I'll pursue it to the maximum extent possible under the law.

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IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT CAPACITY THE CHARGE WAS, WHAT WAS MENTIONED IN THE DESCRIPTION, WHAT THE BUYER READ / DIDN'T READ, ETC. ETC.

I have had over a thousand transactions within a year and you'd be AMAZED at how often people don't read the description or look at photos.

Ebay's new policy is that returns have to be accepted even if it is buyer remorse, them not reading the description, etc.

And once you use Ebay, you agree to THEIR policy, and THEIR rules, by using the site. You have no legal case because we all are bound to Ebay's policy changes and rules, this is the legal disclaimer that comes with using this site. People who don't obey the rules get suspended. YOU HAVE NO LEGAL CASE HERE.

You can post on this thread all day long until the sun don't shine about how you mentioned the battery issue in the description and they didn't read it BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER.

You got a return request. It sucks. Those that have thousands of transactions under their belt like I do can tell you that it HAPPENS. You cannot avoid it. You can mention and photograph flaws and even mention the flaws in the description in bold, capitalized letters, BUT SOME PEOPLE STILL DON'T READ IT.

It was your responsibility to have an address on file that was not 11 years out of date. 

I have thousands of transactions completed as a seller and people sometimes open up return cases for WHATEVER reason, and Ebay sends them a return label with my address on it that's pre-paid, I get the item back, and re-sell it to someone who will be happy with it, and that's that.

It was your fault for not having an up to date address. If you did, you would get your laptop back, and be able to re-sell it again.

Stop with the "BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT--- I MENTIONED IT IN THE DESCRIPTION!!!!!!! THEY CAN'T RETURN AN ITEM BECAUSE ANY AND ALL FLAWS WERE MENTIONED IN THE DESCRIPTION!!!" - yes, they CAN return items, and they will.

None of us like it, but as a seller, returns happen. It's part of the business.

Stop being hung up on the fact that a buyer didn't read the description. It happens to all of us A LOT, especially those of us like myself who have thousands of completed sales.

You didn't have an updated address. Why didn't you stop to take 2 minutes to update your address on the site? After all these years, you couldn't spare two minutes to update your address? It literally just takes a minute from your day.