eBay let buyer return an item and it was sent to a wrong address and it was lost!

[roy8765]

Around a month ago, I sold a used laptop on eBay, clearly mentioning in the item description that the battery was not good and it could hold only about half an hour of charge (to the best of my knowlege) and that returns were not accepted.  The buyer claimed that the battery was bad and requested a return which I declined.  However, eBay let the buyer return it and they even provided a return address to him which was 11 years old without asking me first and the laptop was sent to a wrong address.  I never received the laptop and for all practical purposes, the ~$250 laptop is lost!  I appealed eBay's decision multiple times and they always rejected my appeal and forced me to fully refund the buyer plus shipping.  Eventually I asked for their legal department and I'm considering suing eBay in a small claims court.  What are my options and chances of success here?  Any advice from the community and the sellers who have been in this situation?

This is a pretty clear mess up on eBay's part....  They turned a long time customer into an active enemy!  Any lawyers who would like to take this case on my behalf?

[buyselljack2016]

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@roy8765 wrote:
They already do that for shipping address for buyers. It should be an automatic process.

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It is automatic.  They checked, and automatically used the address that YOU provided.

[missjen831]

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@kensgiftshop wrote:

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@roy8765 wrote:
The fraudulent buyer filed an INAD where it was clearly mentioned that the battery was bad and therefore I declined the return.

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When a buyer files an INAD, seller only has one choice, that is to accept the return and provide return shipping.

You got lucky when Ebay had the buyer return the item.

Sometimes when a seller has a no return policy and they decline an INAD, Ebay will refund and let the buyer keep the item.

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The sellers return policy  is irrelevant on an SNAD. Whether they accept returns or not, eBay may refund without a return. It doesn’t matter if the seller has a no return policy. The ONLY reason they refund without a return is when the seller refuses to accept the return or pay for return shipping 🙂

[coffeebean832]

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@roy8765 wrote:

This is a pretty clear mess up on eBay's part....  They turned a long time customer into an active enemy!  Any lawyers who would like to take this case on my behalf?

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This is a pretty clear mess up on your part.

eBay prompts users to update their phone number and address at least once a year when they log in. It's not eBay's fault you ignored their prompts... for 11 years.

You agreed to the actions taken by eBay when you listed an item on this site. Read the User Agreement, read the Money Back Guarantee, read about Seller performance standards. The information is there, stated over and over again. It's not eBay's fault you ignored all of their policies.

You may have been honest about the battery in the listing, but you listed using the wrong condition (Used instead of Parts/Not Working). Reading the item condition guide is necessary when you are listing something that is not New.

First contact the post office with the tracking number and find out if they can tell you where the package is. Was it delivered to your old address or was it returned to sender? Does the post office still have it? You may still be able to recover it. Contact the current resident of your old address if it was delivered to them. Send a letter if you have to and include your phone number and e-mail.

Then read the user agreement and all of eBay and PayPal policies. Read the Seller Updates - they are full of upcoming policy changes. You should also research what happens if a credit card chargeback is filed. You can't protect yourself and your account if you don't know the policies of the companies you are partnering with.

If all of that sounds like too much of a hassle then online selling may not be for you. Local sales for cash in hand may be an option you're more comfortable with.

[coffeebean832]

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@nowthatsjustducky wrote:

Battery condition feels like it should be a gray area.  After all, a laptop does not require a battery to run, due to its most common state being running on house power as if it was a desktop.  So the laptop was fully functional.

That would be like selling a portable radio that has its power cord but no batteries included.  It still works as intended, the battery is just really an optional extra.  Would anyone expect a radio sold without batteries to be listed as for parts / not working; since it does not come with one of the two ways it can receive power?

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Most radios don't come with batteries. Laptops do come with batteries and they're not simple AAs you can pick up at almost any store. A battery is considered an "essential component" of a laptop which is portable by design. A laptop should be listed as Parts/Not Working if the battery is useless.

[buyselljack2016]

As others have stated. Used means fully functional. Something such as a laptop that only works for  30 minutes is not "fully functional.

I do feel your pain.  I have to take returns, and refund when the buyer does not read.  They buy a Honda part for their Toyota, and make a claim that the wrong part was sent. 

My only option is to accept the return, and refund.  Pay shipping both ways.  Well I can ignore, or refuse the return, but if I do that eBay will refund from my pocket, and give me a serious seller defect.

Such is selling on eBay.  eBay is not for everyone.  You and I are just grains of sand on the "vast eBay beach.  They do not care about you and I.

[jason_incognito]

Okay, I went and looked. 

When you list an item there is the area where it asks RETURN OPTIONS this is where you would have clicked for returns.

right there is this.

"The item can always be returned if it doesn’t match the listing description. Learn more"

that was right there on the form that you used to list your item. You clicked right past it. eBay not only informed you in the UA, but right there in the listing was that.

If you clicked through, there is this...

If the item you received doesn't match the description in the original listing, or if it arrived faulty or damaged, you're covered under the eBay Money Back Guarantee. You can return it even if the seller's returns policy says they don't accept returns.

How more clear do you think they needed to be?

[a_c_green]

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@buyselljack2016 wrote:

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@roy8765 wrote:
They already do that for shipping address for buyers. It should be an automatic process.

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It is automatic.  They checked, and automatically used the address that YOU provided.

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Agreed... and to be specific, it's the address that gets validated, not the occupants. There's no requirement for matching names to addresses; the only thing that gets validated at the time of printing a shipping label is the mailing address and its ZIP code, checked behind the scenes against the USPS database at the time the label transaction is going through. (This is how the 5-digit ZIP on a buyer's Ship-To: address gets magically turned into a ZIP+4 9-digit ZIP when the label comes out of the printer.)

[jason_incognito]

Honestly. if it was my $200 computer I'd be figuring out a way to get ahold of the people living at the old address and get my computer back. 

Your energy would be so much better spent on that.

[roy8765]

I fully understand this, but the whole point here is that my item was as described in the listing and eBay still allowed the buyer to return it. Buyers can always claim INAD.

[roy8765]

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@18704d wrote:

How does eBay know that?

What if, I was a seller, and you bought a No Returns laptop from me?

And .. I never sent you the laptop pictured in the listing.... instead I sent you a phone book.

What then?

How does eBay know if the seller is telling the truth or the buyer? And why do they always pick the buyer?

[roy8765]

They could at least send a notification email to the seller with the return address information before actually letting the buyer to ship the item so that the sellers can update their address. I did not even have the opportunity to look at that address after they made a decision. And before making that decision I was sure they wouldn't allow him to return it because the description was accurate so I saw no need to even check it......

[goodluckselling]

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@roy8765 wrote:

But it was clearly mentioned in the item description that the battery was bad.  The buyer just didn't care to read it carefully. Why do I have to suffer ~$300 loss for buyer's mistake particularly when I chose to sell under the "No Returns" policy? eBay is at fault here and I don't agree with your defenses. I suspect that either you're eBay employees, agents or otherwise financially benefiting from it. Also, eBay can easily confirm the return addresses just like it confirms the shipping addresses.

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It does not really matter about the buyers missing your info.  You listed it incorrectly and when a request is opened that is what eBay goes by.  Your condition and the fact the buyer said the battery does not work is all eBay needs to approve the return via the money back guarantee.

Concentrate on trying to get the item back if you want it, or just let it all go and move forward, and do not let it get you down.

Good Luck Selling!

We all make mistakes, you just need to own up to yours and move forward with some newly learned knowledge

[marnotom!]

So let me get this straight:  A seller who didn't read read and understand the various agreements and policies that explained what they were getting into when they started selling on eBay is complaining about a buyer who didn't read and understand a listing description that this seller made.

Oooookay. . . 

@roy8765, if you've been selling on eBay for over a decade with no serious incidents of loss, it seems foolish to throw in the towel over one sale that's gone south unless your business model is so flawed that your business is going to collapse over this.  Not every sale is going to be a money-maker, but you should have enough of a profit margin to absorb the rare sale that comes out of your pocket.  If this is happening frequently to you, then, yes, you should be examining your business model and investigating other venues that may work better for your sales.

Online selling and eBay have changed an awful lot since Pierre Omidyar sold his broken laser pointer 22 years ago.  eBay no longer sees itself as an online garage sale.  Online retailers are not competing so much with brick and mortar retailers as they are competing with other online retailers.  Some sellers have been able to adapt to these changes and have thrived, some have not and have mIfade their own changes to their business practices.

If this sale is going to cripple you, you need to make some hard choices.  Even if it isn't going to cripple you, you need to examine your business model as well as eBay's agreements and policies and make some hard choices.  Like it or not, what worked on eBay in the mid '00s probably isn't working for many sellers anymore, partly due to changes in the nature of selling online, and partly due to changes eBay itself has made.

Good luck to you.

[roy8765]

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@buyselljack2016 wrote:

As others have stated. Used means fully functional. Something such as a laptop that only works for  30 minutes is not "fully functional".

Only a new battery is "fully functional". Any used battery obviously is not working at full capacity. For example, this battery originally had 6 hours life span. When I sold it, it was at ~5% capacity. So, you're saying that the whole laptop was not qualified as Used because of this? You have to buy new batteries to be qualified as Used?!! This just defies logic. Any way I was honest about this issue and the item description was accurate. It was not like I tried to deceive anyone or get money for more than what the laptop was worth....

[marnotom!]

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@roy8765 wrote:

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How does eBay know if the seller is telling the truth or the buyer? And why do they always pick the buyer?

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Ultimately, the buyer pays the bills.  The sellers pay eBay their fees out of what their buyers pay them.  It's eBay's golden rule:  Whoever has the gold, rules.