eBay

lucky_analogue · ‎07-11-2023

I honestly don't know how the removal of full feedback on buyers has survived this long. It's literally turned eBay into a free-for-all for scammers.

Shipping scam buyers, ultimately resulting in tied up item and need to relist - can't leave negative feedback.

Constant no-pay buyers, resulting in tied up item and need to relist - can't leave negative feedback.

Serial return scammers, well documented all across the internet - fully positive feedback on Ebay because... can't leave negative feedback.

Buyers with history of dumping negative feedback weeks or months after receiving an item, with no responses to messages that attempt to resolve, no refund request - can't leave negative feedback.

lucky_analogue · ‎07-11-2023

@stainlessenginecovers wrote:
@lucky_analogue wrote:
@stainlessenginecovers wrote:
How it survived? Because this is a selling venue. Nothing else. A venue designed to bring people in to buy things. The last thing ANY selling venue wants to do is poo on their customers. (there are no large face posters in the windows of Target that says 'Bad Customer').

That's not entirely true. Go repeatedly abuse a store's return policy and see if you don't eventually get flagged and told to pound sand on your tenth rental "return". Multi-seller marketplaces like eBay give buyers a single venue to engage in habitual abuse - like being able to buy/return scam every major retailer in existence without the hassle of dealing with having to visit numerous physical locations.

Typical retail doesn't need buyer ratings because a single business entity is:

1. The owner of the inventory
2. The tracker of the abusive buyer behavior
3. The one directly impacted by the abusive behavior

There's simply no need for public buyer feedback in a standard retail setting.
Other multi-seller market places like Amazon don't need it because unlike eBay, they too actually track and deal with abusive buyer behavior, because Amazon *used to be* the sole seller, so the infrastructure is already in place.
It's 100% accurate and true.

There is a reason and small Mom & Pop shops used to post 'bad checks' and Driver License with address blacked out. Said person would walk in, see it and walk out.

You can go to Walmart 10 times before they catch up.
I can (and will) block you the 1st time you return something so you cannot come into my store 9 more times and abuse me. I don't need 'feedback' for any of that.
I can go to 10 Walmarts in a 40 mile radius and return many many times before being 'black balled'.

Bottom line, again- who left the negative feedback for that buyer? Do I know them? Do I trust them? Is the 'leaver' even telling the truth? or, do I take it (if negs were allowed) with a grain of salt. I'd do the latter.

Bottom line is, there's good reason off-eBay bad buyer lists exist - and it's because eBay isn't providing the necessary tools to call them out and in fact has actively removed those tools. Your bad checks example supports my point about the need for public buyer accountability - not your point that's it's useless.

You might sell a billion items a month and can afford to lose them left and right to bad buyers "just once". I have low volume, small margins, and I'm only interested in dealing with serious buyers. I cannot give away items "just once" to build up a blocked buyer list. Plus, by your own logic, that list is worthless because those blocked people can just come back to you (and the 20 other sellers they scammed) with a new account. Problem is, with no negative feedback they again scammed 20 people before you and you're once again left with zero warning - so you can get scammed, again, "just once".

Case in point: had a buy-it-now order the other day mere minutes after listing an item. Sweet, right? Nice quick sale. I saw the seller's name was something about a camera shop. That's pretty cool, let me go Google this camera shop to see if this camera is going to a nice home, maybe they even have some stuff I want to buy from them. But no. Both BBB and eBay bad buyer lists are what pop loaded. LOADED with reviews going back years about this person's scam history on eBay. This is at least their fourth account, which are able to run for years each thanks to zero seller protections. They do nothing but buy on eBay - not a single sale. So guess what? Tons of positive reviews... because positive reviews is all they can get.

Had I not by chance done that random searching, I'd be out my item too like many other people. If bad buyer reviews were actually a thing, maybe I would have had a heads up to either do a little digging first or make an informed decision on whether I actually want to ship to this person. Informed transaction decisions is the platform that eBay previously provided. It was never intended to be international Craigslist, but that's essentially what it is now.

maxine*j · ‎07-11-2023

@chapeau-noir wrote:
@house*of*paws wrote:
... eBay will probably drop FB for buyers before it implements the ability to leave negs/neuts for them, which they will never do. When sellers had that ability, there was too much revenge feedback. eBay has plenty of sellers, but it desperately needs buyers. They're not going to alienate them.

And as bad as it was then, and it was pretty bad, it would be worse now. I say that based on the steady stream of sellers who come to this forum foaming at the mouth, hurling dreadful accusations, positively hungering to neg buyers and neg 'em hard.

-

stainlessenginecovers · ‎07-11-2023

@lucky_analogue wrote:
@stainlessenginecovers wrote:
@lucky_analogue wrote:
@stainlessenginecovers wrote:
How it survived? Because this is a selling venue. Nothing else. A venue designed to bring people in to buy things. The last thing ANY selling venue wants to do is poo on their customers. (there are no large face posters in the windows of Target that says 'Bad Customer').

That's not entirely true. Go repeatedly abuse a store's return policy and see if you don't eventually get flagged and told to pound sand on your tenth rental "return". Multi-seller marketplaces like eBay give buyers a single venue to engage in habitual abuse - like being able to buy/return scam every major retailer in existence without the hassle of dealing with having to visit numerous physical locations.

Typical retail doesn't need buyer ratings because a single business entity is:

1. The owner of the inventory
2. The tracker of the abusive buyer behavior
3. The one directly impacted by the abusive behavior

There's simply no need for public buyer feedback in a standard retail setting.
Other multi-seller market places like Amazon don't need it because unlike eBay, they too actually track and deal with abusive buyer behavior, because Amazon *used to be* the sole seller, so the infrastructure is already in place.
It's 100% accurate and true.

There is a reason and small Mom & Pop shops used to post 'bad checks' and Driver License with address blacked out. Said person would walk in, see it and walk out.

You can go to Walmart 10 times before they catch up.
I can (and will) block you the 1st time you return something so you cannot come into my store 9 more times and abuse me. I don't need 'feedback' for any of that.
I can go to 10 Walmarts in a 40 mile radius and return many many times before being 'black balled'.

Bottom line, again- who left the negative feedback for that buyer? Do I know them? Do I trust them? Is the 'leaver' even telling the truth? or, do I take it (if negs were allowed) with a grain of salt. I'd do the latter.

Bottom line is, there's good reason off-eBay bad buyer lists exist - and it's because eBay isn't providing the necessary tools to call them out and in fact has actively removed those tools. Your bad checks example supports my point about the need for public buyer accountability - not your point that's it's useless.

You might sell a billion items a month and can afford to lose them left and right to bad buyers "just once". I have low volume, small margins, and I'm only interested in dealing with serious buyers. I cannot give away items "just once" to build up a blocked buyer list. Plus, by your own logic, that list is worthless because those blocked people can just come back to you (and the 20 other sellers they scammed) with a new account. Problem is, with no negative feedback they again scammed 20 people before you and you're once again left with zero warning - so you can get scammed, again, "just once".

Case in point: had a buy-it-now order the other day mere minutes after listing an item. Sweet, right? Nice quick sale. I saw the seller's name was something about a camera shop. That's pretty cool, let me go Google this camera shop to see if this camera is going to a nice home, maybe they even have some stuff I want to buy from them. But no. Both BBB and eBay bad buyer lists are what pop loaded. LOADED with reviews going back years about this person's scam history on eBay. This is at least their fourth account, which are able to run for years each thanks to zero seller protections. They do nothing but buy on eBay - not a single sale. So guess what? Tons of positive reviews... because positive reviews is all they can get.

Had I not by chance done that random searching, I'd be out my item too like many other people. If bad buyer reviews were actually a thing, maybe I would have had a heads up to either do a little digging first or make an informed decision on whether I actually want to ship to this person. Informed transaction decisions is the platform that eBay previously provided. It was never intended to be international Craigslist, but that's essentially what it is now.

Are you kidding? When I sell something; I have to go into the shop and GO TO WORK; not just 'pluck it off the shelf and stick it in a box'.

Anyway, 10+ years in Retail Mgt and I know how the general public works, the 'percentage' of bad guys', the 'percentage' of chargebacks and the 'percentage' of just ugly customers.

But; it's still a 'selling' environment and you simply DON'T go off what 'others' say, especially when those 'others' can be less than professionals trying to just clear out their junk, er, uh, closets.