You lose all control over your Promoted Listings to Ebay in June, but retain full responsibility

[rugerskick]

https://pages.ebay.com/sell/pl/termsofservice.html

If you read the terms to the changes in Promoted Listings, all your rights as a seller are out the window IF you use Promoted Listings after the June changes.

Here are just some of the things in the above changes.

They can add or remove your specifically chosen key words.

They can change your item prices.  They can change your ad rates.  They are going to allow third parties (brands, larger competitor sellers) access to your confidential sales data without your permission.  In order that they either file a complaint and say we don't want this seller selling here, or to find a way to take more sales away from you.  You won't be able to access others sales data this way as a typical, smaller seller.

After the June changes, there is now nothing in your Promoted Listings they cannot change or modify.  There is nothing they cant simply remove now for any reasons.  They can make any changes to your listing and if their changes run afoul of any third party issues/complaints/violations, its still going to be your fault and the damage will be placed on your ebay account.  They don't have to notify you of any changes they make to anything in any of your Promoted Listings.  You as the seller are responsible for everything but they can control every aspect of your Promoted Listings.  If Ebay makes a charging error to you, if you do not catch the error within 6 days of the charging error taking place, they won't fix it and you are out that money.  If you do catch it within 6 days and write them to correct it, they have a full 60 days to make the proper payments to you.  They give themselves ten times the amount of time to correct their problem than than they give sellers to notice a problem.

Have your attorney friends look over the ebay page above and get their honest opinion. Don't just take my assessment of their page statement above.

The rational advice is to no longer use Promoted Listings.  Your listings won't be yours anymore to control, but all the responsibility and risk are all yours.  Plus you could wind up with huge bills, removed listings, and defects to your account for things ebay did to your Promoted Listings that you had no idea they did.

Everyone who does not want this to have this mpotentially happen to them needs to stop all their Promoted Listings before these June changes take effect.

[valueaddedresource]

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@rugerskick wrote:

Respectfully disagree.

If Ebay werent finding new and special ways to nickel and dime more money out of sellers at every turn, I would be more inclined to agree with you. 

But everything they are doing lately to increase revenue is to take more from sellers any way they can.  At the same time not being grateful for what they deem are low quailty buyers and sellers, who make up the large majority of ebays income.  Everything done lately to "improve" things for sellers actually are regarded by the majority of sellers as a negative.

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@rugerskick  I actually don't disagree with some of your points in general - eBay is absolutely trying to maximize ad revenue and I don't necessarily believe the way they are doing it is in the best interest of sellers or the long term health of the platform (my personal opinion).  Same for a lot of other recent "improvements".

If they were to implement something that allowed them to opt you into advertising without your consent and/or charge whatever rates they feel like, I'd be first in line to criticize them for it and file complaints with the FTC and any other appropriate regulatory bodies for those business practices.

Regardless of what you may think they would *want* to do based on what you think of other things they are doing, that doesn't magically make words mean things they don't say or bypass the many legal and regulatory ramifications there would be if eBay actually did what you and others are suggesting here.

Not to mention on a practical level - what good would it really do eBay to do that? They would stand to lose a heck of a lot of ad rev from sellers simply deciding to turn off all PL or even leave the platform.

I would advise waiting to get more information before panicking, but I understand that may not be enough to convince anyone.

[mr_lincoln]

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@gracieallen01 wrote:

Hello Mr. L,

Partly FYI but I think that the real meat of the problem many are seeing is in the beginning, under 'Marketing Services'.  And, the 'Marketing Terms' didn't help, but rather, to me, seem to compound the issues.  With the ambiguity, language and lack of specifics the meanings of what is written can be not only confusing, but construed many ways and a lot could be in there, but left unsaid.  I had to read it over more than twice and with a different mind set each time.  It sort of raised the hackles, so to speak.

However, as has been mentioned, time will tell.  This is ebay, what could go wrong? >;>

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Hello@gracieallen01 !!!

  My take is that it is part of their do diligence on User Agreements and / or a document that covers and can apply to all of the different promotions the venue currently offers.  It is not a statement that they, eBay, will be taking creative license and control price, Ad rates, etc on Promotions where Sellers dictate what parameters THEY set on the Promotions they decide to participate in ... "Marketing Services" is just a high level umbrella title to "cover" promotions ... and there are many, a few pics for those who are tired of reading here and prefer pictures ...

Mr. L

[farmalljr]

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@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:

@itscalledapostingid Yes. Yes, it does. It is a deep seated problem at ebay. The moment I read the new Agreement, I immediately KNEW it would be misinterpreted  and cause all sorts of unnecessary anxiety, and ebay would have NOTHING in place to prevent or minimize the anxiety.

Sadly, after 20 plus years on ebay, I'm very close to giving up hope that this company will ever  comprehend how many unnecessary problems could be completely avoided if they would learn to communicate properly.

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Well, here is what it boils down to:

One side says this allows eBay to promote any of your items at any rate, ebay chooses. Many other things in this new "change", but the promotions are the main focus for most of us. 

The other side says, NOTHING is going to change with promotions, UNLESS you specifically and purposely sign up for this new type of marketing. 

It seems clear to me, that from the language of the announcement, that they are in fact, about to take total control of your promotions. I would rather they did NOT, but as written, they are going to, or at least can at will. If this were not the fact, then it would have been worded much different. eBay is a billion dollar company, and I'm sure, employs a team of legal council. If the announcement doesn't mean what it says, then they need to hire better lawyers that are NOT fifth grade students. 

Being vague, leaves the writer of the contract, as much room as they want, to do whatever they want. The fact that eBay absolves itself of ANY responsibility, even of it's own bad actions, says an awful lot, wouldn't you think? If they screw up and charge you too much, you have a brief SIX days to call them out, but they have SIXTY days to make it right. Mmmhmmm. 

Believe what you want. You are all free to think whatever you wish. Until questions/concerns are directly addressed, and the announcement is crystal clear, I am not about to "trust" them. They have a bad habit of making a total mess of things when they change something. And I have no confidence this situation is going to be any different. 

[rugerskick]

You and everyone else seem to totally gloss over the fact I said in my original post to have someone like their attorney or friend attorney review this and get their opinion.  I wasn't joking or being dramatic suggesting that.

[valueaddedresource]

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

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@gracieallen01   My take is that it is part of their do diligence on User Agreements and / or a document that covers and can apply to all of the different promotions the venue currently offers.  It is not a statement that they, eBay, will be taking creative license and control price, Ad rates, etc on Promotions where Sellers dictate what parameters THEY set on the Promotions they decide to participate in ... "Marketing Services" is just a high level umbrella title to "cover" promotions ... and there are many, a few pics for those who are tired of reading here and prefer pictures ...

Mr. L

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@mr_lincoln  I think you're absolutely right - the language is there to try to cover at a very high level a multitude of different ad options they currently offer or may offer in the near future.

To add to that - I think it's important to remember that eBay Ads/Marketing isn't *just* Promoted Listings for sellers, it also encompasses 3rd party ad slots you see with ads for things like insurance, etc. Some of the language in the terms could absolutely refer to those types of ads as well.

https://www.ebayads.com/ad-solutions/ways-to-advertise/ 

[mr_lincoln]

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@valueaddedresource wrote:

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

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@gracieallen01   My take is that it is part of their do diligence on User Agreements and / or a document that covers and can apply to all of the different promotions the venue currently offers.  It is not a statement that they, eBay, will be taking creative license and control price, Ad rates, etc on Promotions where Sellers dictate what parameters THEY set on the Promotions they decide to participate in ... "Marketing Services" is just a high level umbrella title to "cover" promotions ... and there are many, a few pics for those who are tired of reading here and prefer pictures ...

Mr. L

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@mr_lincoln  I think you're absolutely right - the language is there to try to cover at a very high level a multitude of different ad options they currently offer or may offer in the near future.

To add to that - I think it's important to remember that eBay Ads/Marketing isn't *just* Promoted Listings for sellers, it also encompasses 3rd party ad slots you see with ads for things like insurance, etc. Some of the language in the terms could absolutely refer to those types of ads as well.

https://www.ebayads.com/ad-solutions/ways-to-advertise/ 

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@valueaddedresource   Thank you and I know there are quite a few others who posted here who view it similarly ... but the occasional "the sky is fallen" thread is good for keep us on our toes ...

[allthingssurplus]

The written words in rugerskick opening of this thread are as he/she understands them.  In my 52 years of business I have dealt with a great deal of legal documents.  That statement is clear and clean.  Yes there is a good deal of "we may" in the writing.  That is in the writing so that folks like yourself don't want to believe that eBay would really do something like control your entire business.  Do you really want eBay to just do with what they want with your money or product??.  eBay would have not published that writing if they never intended to use it. 

rugerskick I too have written on this board the real world of eBay writings  and got the same responses you received in this thread.  People really believe eBay is looking out for them.  Nothing is further from the truth.

[lepke1979]

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@valueaddedresource wrote:

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

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@mr_lincoln  I think you're absolutely right - the language is there to try to cover at a very high level a multitude of different ad options they currently offer or may offer in the near future.

To add to that - I think it's important to remember that eBay Ads/Marketing isn't *just* Promoted Listings for sellers, it also encompasses 3rd party ad slots you see with ads for things like insurance, etc. Some of the language in the terms could absolutely refer to those types of ads as well.

https://www.ebayads.com/ad-solutions/ways-to-advertise/ 

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Also thinking it has to do with external sites in general that eBay lists on. I don't know how it used to be. But about  a third of my page views show up as external according to eBay's traffic page. I could see some of this having to deal with formatting for the various third party sites eBay might list on to get people to come here.

[valueaddedresource]

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@rugerskick wrote:

You and everyone else seem to totally gloss over the fact I said in my original post to have someone like their attorney or friend attorney review this and get their opinion.  I wasn't joking or being dramatic suggesting that.

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@rugerskick  not glossing over it and it's a great suggestion! An attorney with some knowledge of eBay would be best to understand some of the terminology and how it could apply.

I have two attorneys in the family I've talked to about this - they agreed some parts are not very clearly written and could use a lot more clarification, but between their legal knowledge and my eBay experience, I'm personally satisfied with at least waiting for more information before making drastic decisions on this topic. As always though, risk assessment and mileage may vary.

[lepke1979]

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@allthingssurplus wrote:

rugerskick I too have written on this board the real world of eBay writings  and got the same responses you received in this thread.  People really believe eBay is looking out for them.  Nothing is further from the truth.

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I doubt many think eBay is necessarily looking out for them. But a lot of people seem to think eBay is like some monster under their bed waiting to strike at them or their wallet. And at the same time still sell here for some reason.

[valueaddedresource]

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@lepke1979 wrote:

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@valueaddedresource wrote:

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

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@mr_lincoln  I think you're absolutely right - the language is there to try to cover at a very high level a multitude of different ad options they currently offer or may offer in the near future.

To add to that - I think it's important to remember that eBay Ads/Marketing isn't *just* Promoted Listings for sellers, it also encompasses 3rd party ad slots you see with ads for things like insurance, etc. Some of the language in the terms could absolutely refer to those types of ads as well.

https://www.ebayads.com/ad-solutions/ways-to-advertise/ 

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Also thinking it has to do with external sites in general that eBay lists on. I don't know how it used to be. But about  a third of my page views show up as external according to eBay's traffic page. I could see some of this having to deal with formatting for the various third party sites eBay might list on to get people to come here.

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@lepke1979  Absolutely I think some of this is about external sites and formatting requirements like you said.

It also just occurred to me that eBay Partner Network affiliate marketing could possibly be considered under the "marketing terms" too, so some of the language may be gear toward that as well.

So yeah, I think we can all agree this is a terribly worded mess and eBay absolutely should have provided more info from the get go. 😂 

[the-sewing-bee]

This really sucks!   As I read it before, and came on your post, I went in and did

[lepke1979]

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@the-sewing-bee wrote:

This really sucks!   As I read it before, and came on your post, I went in and did

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To each their own. But I feel like waiting until we get further clarification on stuff would have been a better way to go.

[the-sewing-bee]

I went and deleted all my promoted listing that I have on Ebay.  I want no part of this.  It sucks and have read from ebay also the same thing that is on here.   I do not know where Ebay is going with this and maybe it's time to go elseware.  I've been here on Ebay 21 years, and they make it harder for us to sell our stuff.  

[simply-the-best-for-you]

On the contrary, for some of us PL's have been an amazing game changer.  I have no plans to change anything.  I'll wait n see if the sky is really falling.  Like I said, they already do a form of this in PL Standard Automated, which I've used from day 1 & love that they manage more of it.  I used to do part of the Automated portion manually, so it saves me a lot of time & money.