Won the case, as in don't have to refund, but what happens with buyer now?

[annabelles-attic]

I am a long time seller and buyer here. I sold a new Ipad on here for $865. Now I know it's been said a thousand times don't sell anything you cannot afford to lose as Ebay is ripe for scammers. Well I got one. The Ipad was new in the box. I got the Ipad for free so at least I would not be out of the money if I got a scammer. When this person won I sent her an email through Ebay asking if someone would be there to sign. She responded and said yes. So I sent the package insured signature confirmation.  Well it was delivered and signed for at her apartment building. Two months late she claims through her credit card company that it was unathourized through paypal. Paypal locks up my money for the Ipad. I call them and under seller protection I got my account unlocked because of seller protection. This was a week ago. Today I get a email from Paypal saying this person's credit card found in her favor but Paypal is covering it. So now I don't have to refund which is good but Paypal eats the cost. Does Paypal do anything after this? Do they go after the person who scammed me? I would hope that Paypal would not take this sitting down. 

[odditiesandantiquities1]

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@annabelles-attic wrote:

I am a long time seller and buyer here. I sold a new Ipad on here for $865. Now I know it's been said a thousand times don't sell anything you cannot afford to lose as Ebay is ripe for scammers. Well I got one. The Ipad was new in the box. I got the Ipad for free so at least I would not be out of the money if I got a scammer. When this person won I sent her an email through Ebay asking if someone would be there to sign. She responded and said yes. So I sent the package insured signature confirmation.  Well it was delivered and signed for at her apartment building. Two months late she claims through her credit card company that it was unathourized through paypal. Paypal locks up my money for the Ipad. I call them and under seller protection I got my account unlocked because of seller protection. This was a week ago. Today I get a email from Paypal saying this person's credit card found in her favor but Paypal is covering it. So now I don't have to refund which is good but Paypal eats the cost. Does Paypal do anything after this? Do they go after the person who scammed me? I would hope that Paypal would not take this sitting down. 

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I have an issue that PayPal is handling right now due to a credit card claim. In my case it was a refund the buyer said he never received. I have the refund documentation and the proof, however in this case, it was a problem on PayPal's side. I still dont' know who has my refund. 

I wonder if this "credit card issue" is similar to the bug PayPal has in it's system right now. I wouldn't worry as PayPal has assumed responsibility, but it could very well have been their error too.

Crazy

[southern*sweet*tea]

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@annabelles-attic wrote:

I am a long time seller and buyer here. I sold a new Ipad on here for $865. Now I know it's been said a thousand times don't sell anything you cannot afford to lose as Ebay is ripe for scammers. Well I got one. The Ipad was new in the box. I got the Ipad for free so at least I would not be out of the money if I got a scammer. When this person won I sent her an email through Ebay asking if someone would be there to sign. She responded and said yes. So I sent the package insured signature confirmation.  Well it was delivered and signed for at her apartment building. Two months late she claims through her credit card company that it was unathourized through paypal. Paypal locks up my money for the Ipad. I call them and under seller protection I got my account unlocked because of seller protection. This was a week ago. Today I get a email from Paypal saying this person's credit card found in her favor but Paypal is covering it. So now I don't have to refund which is good but Paypal eats the cost. Does Paypal do anything after this? Do they go after the person who scammed me? I would hope that Paypal would not take this sitting down. 

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For unauthorized complaints, all a seller has to show is proof of shipment to the Paypal address. Paypal will cover the seller no matter what the credit card decides. Any action against the buyer would be taken by the credit card company. Paypal is just the processor and has no say in the matter. If the buyer has a habit of chargebacks they can cancel her card.

[goodluckselling]

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@annabelles-attic wrote:

I am a long time seller and buyer here. I sold a new Ipad on here for $865. Now I know it's been said a thousand times don't sell anything you cannot afford to lose as Ebay is ripe for scammers. Well I got one. The Ipad was new in the box. I got the Ipad for free so at least I would not be out of the money if I got a scammer. When this person won I sent her an email through Ebay asking if someone would be there to sign. She responded and said yes. So I sent the package insured signature confirmation.  Well it was delivered and signed for at her apartment building. Two months late she claims through her credit card company that it was unathourized through paypal. Paypal locks up my money for the Ipad. I call them and under seller protection I got my account unlocked because of seller protection. This was a week ago. Today I get a email from Paypal saying this person's credit card found in her favor but Paypal is covering it. So now I don't have to refund which is good but Paypal eats the cost. Does Paypal do anything after this? Do they go after the person who scammed me? I would hope that Paypal would not take this sitting down. 

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We are just buyers and sellers on eBay like you, so we do not know what Paypal does to buyers, but there is no reason to think they will continue to take losses from any single account, so just like eBay I think it is safe to say that buyer get some scrutinity moving forward using there services.

Good Luck Selling!

[retrose1]

I am very sure that paypal will see to it that they will NOT be out a dime due to that user again. 

The pal flags accounts on occasion and the odds are good your buyer might have a problem using paypal again.  They will certainly have a problem using that card again.

The fact that the buyer waited 2 months and filed a chargeback means that either they were new at scamming and figured they would give it a try OR that they have burned a lot of bridges and are using the last method they have left.

[*eponymous*]

PayPal is insured .  They dont lose a dime!

They would not have refunded if the buyer was not entitled to it. But of course you imagine horrible things because, after all, were talking about a BUYER 😂

The reality is that PayPal's customer is not on anyone's "radar" or anything else. Lol it probably WAS PayPal's fault!! 😃

[mam98031]

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@southern*sweet*tea wrote:

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@annabelles-attic wrote:

I am a long time seller and buyer here. I sold a new Ipad on here for $865. Now I know it's been said a thousand times don't sell anything you cannot afford to lose as Ebay is ripe for scammers. Well I got one. The Ipad was new in the box. I got the Ipad for free so at least I would not be out of the money if I got a scammer. When this person won I sent her an email through Ebay asking if someone would be there to sign. She responded and said yes. So I sent the package insured signature confirmation.  Well it was delivered and signed for at her apartment building. Two months late she claims through her credit card company that it was unathourized through paypal. Paypal locks up my money for the Ipad. I call them and under seller protection I got my account unlocked because of seller protection. This was a week ago. Today I get a email from Paypal saying this person's credit card found in her favor but Paypal is covering it. So now I don't have to refund which is good but Paypal eats the cost. Does Paypal do anything after this? Do they go after the person who scammed me? I would hope that Paypal would not take this sitting down. 

---

For unauthorized complaints, all a seller has to show is proof of shipment to the Paypal address. Paypal will cover the seller no matter what the credit card decides. Any action against the buyer would be taken by the credit card company. Paypal is just the processor and has no say in the matter. If the buyer has a habit of chargebacks they can cancel her card.

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Proof of shipment is not enough.  You need to show proof of Delivery!

If the seller followed the rules for Seller Protection on PP, then PP will cover them if the item shows delivered.  

Actions against the buyer would be by the CCC and/or PP.  The CCC isn't likely to do anything to the buyer as the money was refunded by PP and the CCC isn't out anything but a little time and the fee they charged to PP for taking the CC in the first place.  A CCC will only do something to the buyer if the buyer has a history of filing claims too often.  Win or lose.

PP can restrict their PP account especially because their PP account was used for an Unauthorized transaction.  The buyer is claiming it was an unauthorized charge, therefore the PP account the buyer had must have been hacked or otherwise compromized in some way.  PP isn't going to just let that go as they have liability if they do as they did in this case.

Also PP has a department specifically to handle these refunds that PP has to pay out for seller protection cases.   It isn't likely that the seller will every hear about what the ultimate decision or outcome that happens between PP and the CCC, but that doesn't mean that PP just sits back and take the loss.  It only means they aren't keeping you updated.  Sometimes PP contacts the seller for additional info to battle the CCC with, but not often.

[papermoneyforme]

I am curious if the buyer was the same as the person that signed for it.

[annabelles-attic]

She lives in an apartment building. Someone else signed for it.

[missjen831]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@southern*sweet*tea wrote:

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@annabelles-attic wrote:

I am a long time seller and buyer here. I sold a new Ipad on here for $865. Now I know it's been said a thousand times don't sell anything you cannot afford to lose as Ebay is ripe for scammers. Well I got one. The Ipad was new in the box. I got the Ipad for free so at least I would not be out of the money if I got a scammer. When this person won I sent her an email through Ebay asking if someone would be there to sign. She responded and said yes. So I sent the package insured signature confirmation.  Well it was delivered and signed for at her apartment building. Two months late she claims through her credit card company that it was unathourized through paypal. Paypal locks up my money for the Ipad. I call them and under seller protection I got my account unlocked because of seller protection. This was a week ago. Today I get a email from Paypal saying this person's credit card found in her favor but Paypal is covering it. So now I don't have to refund which is good but Paypal eats the cost. Does Paypal do anything after this? Do they go after the person who scammed me? I would hope that Paypal would not take this sitting down. 

---

For unauthorized complaints, all a seller has to show is proof of shipment to the Paypal address. Paypal will cover the seller no matter what the credit card decides. Any action against the buyer would be taken by the credit card company. Paypal is just the processor and has no say in the matter. If the buyer has a habit of chargebacks they can cancel her card.

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Proof of shipment is not enough.  You need to show proof of Delivery!

If the seller followed the rules for Seller Protection on PP, then PP will cover them if the item shows delivered.  

Actions against the buyer would be by the CCC and/or PP.  The CCC isn't likely to do anything to the buyer as the money was refunded by PP and the CCC isn't out anything but a little time and the fee they charged to PP for taking the CC in the first place.  A CCC will only do something to the buyer if the buyer has a history of filing claims too often.  Win or lose.

PP can restrict their PP account especially because their PP account was used for an Unauthorized transaction.  The buyer is claiming it was an unauthorized charge, therefore the PP account the buyer had must have been hacked or otherwise compromized in some way.  PP isn't going to just let that go as they have liability if they do as they did in this case.

Also PP has a department specifically to handle these refunds that PP has to pay out for seller protection cases.   It isn't likely that the seller will every hear about what the ultimate decision or outcome that happens between PP and the CCC, but that doesn't mean that PP just sits back and take the loss.  It only means they aren't keeping you updated.  Sometimes PP contacts the seller for additional info to battle the CCC with, but not often.

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Proof of shipment OR delivery is what is required on an unauthorized use chargeback. The seller doesn't need proof of delivery if they have proof of shipment --only an INR do they need proof of delivery. PayPal covers the seller with proof of shipment. https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#seller-protection

[retrose1]

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@*eponymous* wrote:

PayPal is insured .  They dont lose a dime!

They would not have refunded if the buyer was not entitled to it. But of course you imagine horrible things because, after all, were talking about a BUYER 😂

The reality is that PayPal's customer is not on anyone's "radar" or anything else. Lol it probably WAS PayPal's fault!! 😃

---

Let's see, the buyer was informed about the SigCon and asked directly about receiving the package - so they knew it was coming.  And I am very sure that for an expensive item that the OP knows is high scam, they loaded tracking into the transaction.

Yet after 2 months, not weeks but months - the buyer never notifies the OP that they haven't got the expensive item, never complains, never wants their money back - just files a chargeback.

You may think that is the standard operating procedure for buyers,  but there is absolutely nothing about what happened that says the buyer is honest and this was some sort of lost package.  No buyer would sit and wait for months for an expensive package - especially when ebay reminds them they can file cases if they do not have it after a week.

[annabelles-attic]

When she filed the chargeback we emailed her on EBay. No response. Also when we got notifications of PayPal finding in our favor the email that they send to her also bounced back when we tried to send her an email. if that matters or even figures into anything.

[mam98031]

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@annabelles-attic wrote:
When she filed the chargeback we emailed her on EBay. No response. Also when we got notifications of PayPal finding in our favor the email that they send to her also bounced back when we tried to send her an email. if that matters or even figures into anything.

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@annabelles-attic

Hey that may be very useful information down the road.  Make sure you hang onto all of it.  If this buyer does at some point leave FB on your account and if it is negative or neutral,  you can get it removed if you can prove they have bad / incorrect contact info on Ebay.  If it comes to that, you can always get in touch with me and I'll help you through what you need to do to handle it.

[southern*sweet*tea]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@annabelles-attic wrote:
When she filed the chargeback we emailed her on EBay. No response. Also when we got notifications of PayPal finding in our favor the email that they send to her also bounced back when we tried to send her an email. if that matters or even figures into anything.

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@annabelles-attic

Hey that may be very useful information down the road.  Make sure you hang onto all of it.  If this buyer does at some point leave FB on your account and if it is negative or neutral,  you can get it removed if you can prove they have bad / incorrect contact info on Ebay.  If it comes to that, you can always get in touch with me and I'll help you through what you need to do to handle it.

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If it's actually been two months, the feedback window has closed.

[penguins_dont_fly]

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@retrose1 wrote:

I am very sure that paypal will see to it that they will NOT be out a dime due to that user again. 

The pal flags accounts on occasion and the odds are good your buyer might have a problem using paypal again.  They will certainly have a problem using that card again.

The fact that the buyer waited 2 months and filed a chargeback means that either they were new at scamming and figured they would give it a try OR that they have burned a lot of bridges and are using the last method they have left.

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I agree with rose ... PayPal does keep track.

I had a CC UA last year (just looked it up -- Sale was on July 4, 2016 .. one year ago)

The buyer was active and verified when they made the payment and still verified when the case opened (I looked to double check)

After the UA closed in my favor, the account was "Unregistered" immediately.