Won my appeal!!

[shield-doctor]

On July 4th I sold an iPod Touch to a guest buyer.  The buyer received the iPod touch (along with a couple cases and a charger) a few days later and filed an “empty box “ SNAD claim.

I called eBay and got the "we give the buyer the benefit of the doubt" and "this is the risk of selling on-line" routines.  I called Paypal- no help.

I ultimately lost the case and filed an appeal.

In my appeal I referred to the User Agreement.  Hopefully, this can help others  .Here is the text of my appeal.

________________________________________________

“I feel eBay is in violation of the eBay User Agreement. Under Section: Policy Enforcement,  it states: When a buyer or seller issue arises, we may consider the user s performance history and the specific circumstances in applying our policies. We may choose to be more lenient with policy enforcement in an effort to do the right thing for both buyers and sellers.

This buyer was a guest with -0- history and claimed the Empty Box Claim. I have 11 years on this ebay account and over 2500 feedback score. I am a Top Rated seller. When one googles "ebay buyer claims not received item empty box"

https: www.google.com/search?q=ebay+buyer+claims+not+received+item+empty+box&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 E

You get over 500,000 hits. This is a well known scam and the buyer played it perfectly as eBay looks the other way on this. Also, your agent claimed that eBay gives the buyer the benefit of the doubt . I don t find that provision in your user agreement. Please let me know if (Buyer’s email address redacted)@hotmail.com has active eBay accounts under various user names. If so, please provide me with those user names. This is allowable under the privacy policy.”

_______________________________________________

This morning I wake up to the following e-mail from eBay:

Thank you for contacting us about case XXXXXXXXXXXX for the following item:

XXXXXXXXX - Apple iPod touch 5th Generation Space Gray (32GB) Bundle with Survivor case!

We've reviewed your concerns and have reversed the outcome of the case. Within 48 hours, we'll credit the PayPal account used to provide reimbursement for this case. If you used another payment method, please open a PayPal account with the email address we have on file. This will enable you to claim your money.

The money hit my PP account about an hour later!

[vintagecraze50]

The "empty box, or switched item return is one of the most problematic of concerns for everyone selling here. It is an issue that I hope this company will find better solutiions for. One solution would be for the returned items have a checkpoint service provided by the company which could be a paid for service for sellers willing to participate. I am sure there are millions of sellers who would participate in a service such as this and that if ebay began doing surveys on the need/want of this service that they would get a multitude of people who would participate. The question would be, is it feasible, cost effective, and would it help the bottom line for ebay and it's sellers. Congrats on your appeal.

---

@shield-doctor wrote:

On July 4th I sold an iPod Touch to a guest buyer.  The buyer received the iPod touch (along with a couple cases and a charger) a few days later and filed an “empty box “ SNAD claim.

I called eBay and got the "we give the buyer the benefit of the doubt" and "this is the risk of selling on-line" routines.  I called Paypal- no help.

I ultimately lost the case and filed an appeal.

In my appeal I referred to the User Agreement.  Hopefully, this can help others  .Here is the text of my appeal.

________________________________________________

“I feel eBay is in violation of the eBay User Agreement. Under Section: Policy Enforcement,  it states: When a buyer or seller issue arises, we may consider the user s performance history and the specific circumstances in applying our policies. We may choose to be more lenient with policy enforcement in an effort to do the right thing for both buyers and sellers.

This buyer was a guest with -0- history and claimed the Empty Box Claim. I have 11 years on this ebay account and over 2500 feedback score. I am a Top Rated seller. When one googles "ebay buyer claims not received item empty box"

https: www.google.com/search?q=ebay+buyer+claims+not+received+item+empty+box&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 E

You get over 500,000 hits. This is a well known scam and the buyer played it perfectly as eBay looks the other way on this. Also, your agent claimed that eBay gives the buyer the benefit of the doubt . I don t find that provision in your user agreement. Please let me know if (Buyer’s email address redacted)@hotmail.com has active eBay accounts under various user names. If so, please provide me with those user names. This is allowable under the privacy policy.”

_______________________________________________

This morning I wake up to the following e-mail from eBay:

Thank you for contacting us about case XXXXXXXXXXXX for the following item:

XXXXXXXXX - Apple iPod touch 5th Generation Space Gray (32GB) Bundle with Survivor case!

We've reviewed your concerns and have reversed the outcome of the case. Within 48 hours, we'll credit the PayPal account used to provide reimbursement for this case. If you used another payment method, please open a PayPal account with the email address we have on file. This will enable you to claim your money.

The money hit my PP account about an hour later!

---

[graciejoy]

---

vintagecraze50 wrote:

The "empty box, or switched item return is one of the most problematic of concerns for everyone selling here. It is an issue that I hope this company will find better solutiions for. One solution would be for the returned items have a checkpoint service provided by the company which could be a paid for service for sellers willing to participate. I am sure there are millions of sellers who would participate in a service such as this and that if ebay began doing surveys on the need/want of this service that they would get a multitude of people who would participate. The question would be, is it feasible, cost effective, and would it help the bottom line for ebay and it's sellers. Congrats on your appeal.

---

              Personally I think it would be a great idea, but the shipping costs alone would make it cost prohibitive. It would also open up a different type of fraud as well. I can just see all the scam artists accusing Ebay employees of stealing the items at the checkpoint and sending empty boxes back to the seller. Actually stealing at the checkpoint would probably really happen. It is certainly not uncommon at FedEx, UPS, and USPS.

[brad62853]

@shield-doctor

Congratulations!! And kudo's to you for following your issue through and sharing these results with us. Have you considered sharing this story with Ina Steiner at EcommerceBytes?

[jeanetteski2]

@shield-doctor

Congratulations, OP!!  I'm very happy for you.  I'm also someone who has recently won an appeal from PP using basically the same tactics as you did.  I quoted their own wording from the Seller's Protection guidelines and a few faxed proof sheets.  While my case was not an "empty box" scenario, I still won my appeal with a little help from my friends here on this board.  I couldn't have done it without them.  Good for you!! 

[cheechwizard]

From my own history, I had only one hard time with eBay and through repeated emails and escalation, I to received a reversal on an eBay decision. It's a shame you have to work so hard to prove your merit, even with years of positive feedback, but eBays initial stance always seems to cater to the buyer...

In my case, I know I received my money back... but I always hoped they went after the buyer and got their (eBay's) money back as well...

[villaocoola]

Interesting article:    New York Times Advises eBay Sellers to Beware    

[uscod-bk8nmhpu]

I recently won an appeal on my case and with a quick response as well. I was shocked after all my research and little faith of the sellers in the EBAY Seller protection when I read "that they reviewed my case and agreed in my favor". Issue I am having now is it seems they finally made a return to my paypal and a refund to him as well then whipped out the misc transactions leaving me to believe they have not even returned any money to my account. The money was in a hold state due to my appeal to the case in which he had already won but the funds and any other communication are non exsistent since they refunded him on the 20th (which is the same day they agreed in my favor)
I guess my question is how soon did you actually receive your return and as in refund fees will they charge for both transactions?
Thank you
CJ

[garmentvarmint2004]

I have one question.  Do "guest"  buyers HAVE  any Ebay Buyer    Protection?

[hidy-hoo]

---

@garmentvarmint2014 wrote:

I have one question.  Do "guest"  buyers HAVE  any Ebay Buyer    Protection?

---

Yes, guest buyers are covered.  See post#22

http://community.ebay.com/t5/Weekly-Chat-with-eBay-Staff/Weekly-Chat-with-the-eBay-Community-Novembe...

[no-plain-white-envelopes]

Good for you , hope this helps out some other sellers.

[irishmom64]

Great news! Its a thieves free for all around here! It's laughable what people attempt to get away with but sadly they are stealing right from sellers who are trying to make a living. I am always shocked at hoe eBay gives them $ whenever they make a fake claim. I'm not sure how long I will bother to sell on eBay due to this situation.

[nher1460]

 How did you guys do an appeal? I tried doing mine and the only option they gave me was to call the phone number. When I called the person said there was nothing they could do based on the information they have and will have to side with the buyer. Is there another way to electronically appeal? In case you're wondering, I am going through an issue somewhat simliar to this myself. I have filed mail fraud complaints, attorney general of said state and will be doing a formal police report. Any help and guidance is appreciated.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Buyer-returned-original-item-box-but-item-itself/m-p/25887276#...

[awesome-auctionsco]

YOU LIE!!!  

It cant be done unless you are using some kind of magic spells or potions.

Are you from the future when eBay cares about its smaller sellers and wants to fix the problems we all have?

Did you get a name or email addy for the people who helped you?

Since eBay never reads these messages in the community I wonder if they would help other sellers appeals under the table if you catch my drift...

I would gladly take part.

But this probably violates some rules or policy deep in the TOS somewhere.

I would never do that though

Right on for the win!

I hope this is a sign of changes to come.

[emilynghiem]

Wow. I knew this had to be common, but didn't think anyone was doing anything about it. 

This may be an IDEA for the post office to stay in business. If they can certify the weight of packages before they ship, then INSURANCE would cover the cost. Not the buyer or seller.

People who make such claims should be required to sign an Affidavit, where if it is perjury that counts as fraud.

So if this fraud takes place over federal postal service, that's a felony.

The US customs and postal service could create jobs for Veterans policing for fraud and abuse.

There is such a demand, they should address this. Thank  you!

[robnation]

Glad you got your cash back!   I'm getting tired of *** buyers scamming stuff... I just got some broken stuff sent back today myself  (buyer fried a car speaker but said "it did not fit")  The buyer should have to eat-it.