Who Should I sue? Ebay or the Buyer after an injustice Case Decision.

[gkhappyfarm]

Here's What Happened in simple Steps to make things quick. 

1. Buyer Received the Live Fish. "OSCAR FISH" 

2. Oscar Fish are known to Lay on their Side when stressed or feeling insecured. 

3. Yes, We offer Live Arrival Guarantee.

4. That is why we have a policy On the original listing saying IF there is a DOA (Dead on Arrival) then a Photo of the fish tail Chopped Off is required. 

5. The Buyer opened a return request. 

6. The buyer attached a few photo of the fish dead in the bag. 

7. There is no telling if the fish is really dead or just laying down. A still photo of the fish laying down can really manipulate  or convince you that the fish is dead even if the fish is really alive. 

8. We asked for the tail chopped off photo. 

9. Buyer refused to. Claiming, he want the fish to rest in peace and not chop off the body parts. 

10. We said the photo is required, and the buyer is stopped responding. 

11. It is nearing the end of the case time, so we contacted Ebay customer service through chat. 

12. Agent says she understand the situation and do see that the original listing Does say the photo is required. 

13. Agent suggest we give the customer 48 Hours to respond. If buyer does not cooperate, then contact ebay back to proceed further. We agreed. 

14. After 60 Hours, we contact Ebay again, through chat (due to Covid19)

15. A new agent reviewed the last chat and the case. Claiming because it's a request not as described, they can't do anything and if buyer refuse to respond, then the case will simply expire. 

16. We want the case closed because the buyer failed to provide proof the fish is really dead. 

17. The agent escalated the case as Seller opened a case on the request and the agent will put the case on hold for 5 days to allow time for the buyer to provide proof. 

18. After 5 days, the case closed at buyer's favor. 

19. We appeal. 

20. Ebay responded within 24 hours and apologize and said their decision is correct and the buyer provided sufficient proof. They will not reverse their decision because their decision is correct.  

21.  We email them and demand the appeal to reopen, explained the situation again. 

22. Ebay Respond within 24 hours and apologize and said they have already reviewed the case and still, will not reverse the decision. 

Overall, The buyer failed to provide sufficient proof that the fish is dead, even when he was asked to do so and ignored. The listing states that the photo is required. Then Ebay escalation team also failed to notice this and closed the case at buyer's favor when the proof is insufficient or not satisfying the original listing policy. 

Clearly, this is a Scam.  The fish costs us $15 and the buyer bought 2. Buyer Pays for shipping, but when the refund is issued by Ebay, we took a big loss on the shipping. That is over $50 in value combined loss. 
We are looking to sue Ebay or the Buyer and is seeking a Lawyer for small claim. 

It may cost us a lot, but at least it teaches the buyer or Ebay a lesson. Someone has to do something to protect the sellers on ebay. I am sure I am not alone. 

Maybe I am wrong, too. If I am, please explain where I am wrong so I can learn from my mistakes. 

Waiting for Ebay to respond again. If not satisfying, then I am going to talk to a lawyer about this. 
In the meantime, I am asking Ebay community for help and did you experience something like this, too. 

If yes, Put your Username down, and When I fight this, I'll fight for us all. 

[silverstatetreasureboxes]

Yah I think Dr. Seuss wrote the book on this saga " one fish..two fish..red fish..blue fish...

[froggyjump]

In the future, have them mail back the fish. Charge $7 for the fish, and $8 for the shipping. I believe you said the fish costs $15?

Ensure buyer pays for return shipping by placing no returns accepted.

Sorry this happened. Clearly they either don't want to cut the fin off or the fish is dead.

Did you check their feedback left for others? Sorry this happened

[rustydalmatian]

I guess it's like when an appliance is recalled, the manufacturer will send you a large return envelope and ask you to cut the cord along with the label wrapped around it, rendering the appliance useless, then refunding your money.  OP wanted proof that the fish was dead, hence the tail, rendering the fish useless.

[ed8108]

Dogs & cats only are considered  pets & have special legal protections in my State, unlike fish that are still unprotected.

Form eBay buyers against cruelty toward fish.

Save our fish

[annadryl]

The very nature of what you do (send live animals through the postal system, over time, through machines, various climates...) could end up with ... a dead animal. Not all the time, but it looks like it might not have worked out this time. Not all buyers are scammers.

And by mailing a fish, you killed a fish!

[chapeau-noir]

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@city*satins wrote:

Here in NC, a fellow was charged with animal cruelty and abandonment for moving away and leaving behind his pet oscar fish which was found in deplorable conditions.

Turns out the our law includes every vertebrate including reptiles, birds, mammals, and amphibians EXCEPT FISH.  (oh, and not humans, they're covered under a different law)

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Who cares about the humans, was the Oscar fish rescued?

[soh.maryl]

It doesn't really matter whether or not the buyer is "fibbing".

eBay sides with the buyer about 99% of the time.  All he has to do is claim an item is not as described.

You probably should do more reading about selling on eBay if you truly believe that a picture would be required, or if it would even make a difference.

[debbe4ever]

Yes, I 'get' the logic behind the tail thing, but I still think it's disgusting (and non enforceable anyway)

[jack_bucks_ghost]

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Buyer Pays for shipping, but when the refund is issued by Ebay, we took a big loss on the shipping. 

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I'm just curious--how do you ship a live fish, Priority Mail?  Surely not UPS ground.  With all of the delays in shipping here the past few months, I bet quite a few don't quite make it, especially if the buyer is in Michigan (that's where most of my delays have been).

[aproudparent2010]

Even if I was 100% sure the fish was dead I would refuse to cut its tail off. I am just a squeamish person and that is just nasty.

Your feedback is horrible and your replies are even worse...seems the idiot and scammer is you.

[a_c_green]

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@jack_bucks_ghost wrote:

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Buyer Pays for shipping, but when the refund is issued by Ebay, we took a big loss on the shipping. 

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I'm just curious--how do you ship a live fish, Priority Mail?

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I've never done it, although I looked it up just now on the USPS site. Fish and Tropical Fish are acceptable under the following conditions (quoting here): 

• Fish must be held in a securely sealed primary receptacle.
• Primary receptacle must be cushioned with sufficient absorbent material to take up all liquid in case of leakage.
• Primary receptacle and absorbent cushioning material must be sealed within waterproof outer (shipping) packaging.

Ref: https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_008.htm#ep203593 

Generally, live stuff should be able to survive for 72 hours without food and water. (Okay, fish get to keep their water. 😁) I would definitely want a quick shipping method. These days the only still-guaranteed method is Priority Mail Express, as stated on the USPS main page, although I have had pretty good luck with regular Priority Mail shipments not getting delayed.

[city*satins]

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@chapeau-noir wrote:

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@city*satins wrote:

Here in NC, a fellow was charged with animal cruelty and abandonment for moving away and leaving behind his pet oscar fish which was found in deplorable conditions.

Turns out the our law includes every vertebrate including reptiles, birds, mammals, and amphibians EXCEPT FISH.  (oh, and not humans, they're covered under a different law)

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Who cares about the humans, was the Oscar fish rescued?

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Yes, at the time that the case was dismissed, the fish was being rehabilitated.  It had a whole lot of problems including hole-in-the-head disease.   I don't know if it made it.  The news kind of dried up (pun intended)

I had an interesting time along the way, learning about oscars.

[froggyjump]

If you aren't going to guarantee the fish are alive upon arrival, seems you are not guaranteeing your product as we are suppose to here on EBAY. You may want to get out of sending live animals

[chapeau-noir]

Particularly at this time when the mail is being affected the pandemic.

[misfitfun]

You agreed to allow ebay to adjudicate buyer protection cases and to  abide by/accept ebays decision  in buyer protection cases  by using this platform

So no grounds for a lawsuit

You could have a agreed to refund upon return,provide a return label and seen if buyer followed thru to get refunded