What to do with this Freight forwarder asking for 50% refund

[an_473180]

I sold a perfumed body powder to a person. He directed me to not include the invoice in the package and the shipment address turned out to be a freight forwarder. I received this message from him last night: "the smell not fresh , it is not nice ? never to buy a vintage body powder , u need to give 50% refund or I need to return , thanks"

I responded with (long) "Hello, I just checked and the shipping address that you gave me for this item, is for a Freight forwarder in New York. Unfortunately, per eBay policy, using a Freight forwarder voids the Money back guarantee. See the policy here: (link) . I noticed that in the review you left today for the body powder for another seller, you state: "Bad smell Never to buy vintage old body power. Instead of getting perfumed powder you will get bad smell powder." I enclose a screenshot for your reference. I do not know what the storage conditions were at the Freight forwarder. I notice that this Freight forwarder specializes in sending items to the Middle East. Is it possible that these two items were stored incorrectly or sat in the hot sun at the airport tarmac? My powder was sealed and fresh and the other seller also listed their powder as sealed. I've spoken with eBay customer service and they agree that your best course of action is to follow up and file a claim with the Freight forwarder that you used. I cannot accept a return now, knowing that the money back guarantee has been voided."

He then responded with: "All you said is false . This item should not be sold in ebay or anywhere. Its old expired and ebay should ask for expiry date for all body powder products. I wonder how you guarantee that the storing conditions were good for 10 years before you sell ? [I NEVER stated that the powder was 10 years old] And now I have to open a case against forwarder who just took it from a place to another for 3 days ? Many US people are living outside and using forwarding companies to buy their stuff. I am asking for 50% as a refund. If you can do that just make the refund and this will find a place in trash basket. Thanks for understanding"

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I know I'm covered by eBay, but I am concerned about this guy initiating a Chargeback through PayPal. What should I do next?

[sunnysouth1]

You seem to know that this isn't covered by eBay and you have explained this to the buyer. You aren't required to give any discounts. Since you have explained the policy to your buyer I would just ignore any further messages.

If the buyer opens a request you need to respond saying the item was delivered to one location and then shipped to another location and then follow up with a phone call to eBay and ask them to close the request.

[marinermikes]

You will end up refunding him when he files a NAD through Pay Pal! He may be bluffing because if he files a claim with Pay Pal he will have to return it. It depends on how much they paid for it whether it is worth while to do so. 

[an_473180]

This sold for $95 dollars.   I don't think he physically can return it.  Reading up about Freight forwarders and remembering that he specifically asked me NOT to include the invoice makes me think that he is a drop-shipper as well.

I believe that this body powder was sold to one of his customers in the middle east and he can't get it back easily or at all.   

Should I issue him a return label knowing that there is no way that he can get it back from his customer and to the freight forwarder in New York in 5 days?    If he doesn't use the label in  5 days that voids the return, right?  I'm new to this and think he is trying to take advantage of me.  

[ittybitnot]

Should I issue him a return label knowing that there is no way that he can get it back from his customer and to the freight forwarder in New York in 5 days?    If he doesn't use the label in  5 days that voids the return, right?  I'm new to this and think he is trying to take advantage of me.  

I would do nothing until they file a formal "return request".  Though use of a "freight forwarder" used to void the MBG, eBay is not enforcing this policy.  You will if a claim is filed supply a label only to the forwarder address. 

The buyer does not have to use this label, but can buy a cheap trinket online and have it sent to an address in your zipcode to satisfy the d/confirmation  tracking  issue.  

eBay is also "extending" the time lines for buyers who do not use their label to over a month, and will no longer close cases early. 

[sunnysouth1]

@ittybitnot ,

The policy states clearly that items shipped to one location and then shipped to another location will not have any buyer protection and eBay does enforce this policy.

[slippinjimmy]

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@an_473180 wrote:

This sold for $95 dollars.   I don't think he physically can return it.  Reading up about Freight forwarders and remembering that he specifically asked me NOT to include the invoice makes me think that he is a drop-shipper as well.

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Not a dropshipper! Standard procedure for a mail forwarder is that they will declare a reduced value for customs (as instructed by THEIR customer) and the buyer doesn't want conflicting documentation included with the shipment.

Simply tell the buyer they need to return for a full refund. As you anticipate the cost for them to return will be too high and they will never return.

If they did actually want to return you would only be on the hook for return shipping from the forwarder location not from the buyers actual location.

Even if this was not a forwarder situation it's very rare that a partial refund is appropriate. there can be some cases, I've given one myself because the buyer in that case had a valid claim but for a "doesn't smell right" claim no partial amount refunded will change the smell.

As a standard policy I never include a packing slip/invoice in a shipment to a mail forwarder.

[ittybitnot]

The policy states clearly that items shipped to one location and then shipped to another location will not have any buyer protection and eBay does enforce this policy.

Yes, I know they did not change the policy page as of the last time I looked.  It has been said by eBay staff here that the use of a forwarder address no longer is grounds to void the MBG.....

'....after all, that person may work there (forwarder address), or perhaps a buyer has his items stored there and picks them up in person later....' are a couple of reasons given.  

[ittybitnot]

Even if this was not a forwarder situation it's very rare that a partial refund is appropriate. 

I can't think of a reason why a "discount" or "partial refund" is going to make the powder smell any better

[sunnysouth1]

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@ittybitnot wrote:

The policy states clearly that items shipped to one location and then shipped to another location will not have any buyer protection and eBay does enforce this policy.

Yes, I know they did not change the policy page as of the last time I looked.  It has been said by eBay staff here that the use of a forwarder address no longer is grounds to void the MBG.....

'....after all, that person may work there (forwarder address), or perhaps a buyer has his items stored there and picks them up in person later....' are a couple of reasons given.  

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If the policy has been changed then eBay needs to update the help page on this.

I've posted on our chat board to get Trinton's attention on this.

[miyasamaco]

This buyer is in the wrong. I don't ship to freight forwarders as policy. This just seems like buyer's remorse. Don't initiate anything in your end. Letting eBay know about this is a good first step. If they initiate anything via PayPal, respond appropriately. 

[pburn]

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@ittybitnot wrote:

'....after all, that person may work there (forwarder address), or perhaps a buyer has his items stored there and picks them up in person later....' are a couple of reasons given.  

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@sunnysouth1 

@ittybitnot 

Here's a link to Trinton's explanation of eBay's position on MBG protection for freight forwarding. @ittybitnot, you were an integral part of that thread/conversation, so I hope you don't mind me posting a link to it.

It's worth reading the entire thread to get a complete picture of Trinton's explanation.

The thread is only 48 messages, and several of those were posted by Trinton. I'd recommend reading them all, in order to get the whole story.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Freight-forwarders/m-p/30669379#M1546378

[a_c_green]

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@slippinjimmy wrote:

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@an_473180 wrote:

This sold for $95 dollars.   I don't think he physically can return it.  Reading up about Freight forwarders and remembering that he specifically asked me NOT to include the invoice makes me think that he is a drop-shipper as well.

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Not a dropshipper! Standard procedure for a mail forwarder is that they will declare a reduced value for customs (as instructed by THEIR customer) and the buyer doesn't want conflicting documentation included with the shipment.

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To be clear, an Invoice is a request for payment, like a bill. What goes into the package after payment is a Packing Slip (which, incidentally, has "This is not an invoice" printed on it). eBay packing slips no longer show the purchase price on them, just the listing title and listing number. 

It's highly unlikely that the buyer would really be satisfied with only a 50% refund on an item that he has announced he's going to throw away. More likely this is his way of haggling a better purchase price. I'd call his bluff and have him return it, even if technically that's not necessary due to the reshipper. I very much doubt he will really go to the trouble of sending it back, even for a full refund.