Was I scammed? Buyer refuses to sign for package and claims it wasn’t delivered.

[charlie_1990]

Buyer purchased collectible item. I always ship such items Priority Mail with signature service. Lately, unscrupulous buyers are claiming that they never received the package, so I’ve had to use signature service. This buyer initially refused to be home or have someone home to sign for the package. When his postman left the USPS “ attempted delivery” notice for his signature (so he could get his package delivered without being home), he refused again to sign. I think that this buyer had planned to scam me— collect his package and say he never got it. Using signature service kept that from happening, but this sneaky buyer found another tactic. He filed a “ not received” claim with EBay, EBay sided with him, despite tracking information showing attempted delivery. EBay debited me and refunded his money. My package was lost and I had to appeal the decision with EBay to recover my money. I was still charged all FVF’s. I had a second such issue with a buyer who purchased a new box of diapers—-yes, diapers—and am in the process of appealing that decision. I am suspending selling on EBay until they better protect sellers from unscrupulous buyers.

[penguins_dont_fly]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

@dalo4242

For many being home to sign or making a trip to the post office is nearly impossible.

Then why buy by mail order/online at all?

If you are not at home, you are as capable of going to the post office as you are to the drugstore.

If you are at home because of disability or children, you are there to sign and don't have to go to the post office.

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When I was a corporate drone, I worked 10+ hour days plus a lot of Saturdays ... and rode public transportation (I don't drive). I was single at the time.

The post office would be closed by the time I got off of work ... and was not within walking distance.

If a package needed a signature, and I didn't know it beforehand, that package was most likely going back as "unable to be delivered".

If I knew beforehand, I would have it sent to my office. I didn't do that for normal packages because I didn't want to tote things home on the bus.

I shop online for the same reason everybody else does ... convenience. SigConReq is not convenient 😞

[parkersparrow]

I live on the 3rd floor in an apt building without any outside doorbell so if someone locks the front door I would get one of those door notices. luckly I'm right next door to the post office but I'm constatntly stressed over if I miss UPS or fedex because it could be something I need to ship out myself. I've even chased down the UPS guy if I see him down the block. I don't drive so it would become an ordeal if I had to go an pick up a missed delivery. 

[closeoutguy1]

There is another option for the buyer besides being home or going to the post office. All you have to do is sign the yellow/orange slip they leave and tape it to your door or mailbox. They will then deliver it.

Another option I was told about by a postman was to put in a form saying you accept the package and I think it said it lets the posty sign for you. And if I'm wrong about the details that is the gist of what I was told.

[femmefan1946]

Canada Post has a free option to mark a package "NO SAFE DROP"

I understand that USPS has a similar service "Hold for Pickup" perhaps? I don't know if it is free.

With all the publicity about porch pirates this holiday season, such a service would be invaluable to sellers.

I don't drive either and the nearest PO to me is a kilometre walk-- with no useful bus service. I've been meaning to buy a bike. Meanwhile I have my wheelie cart, dorky but invaluable.

[ripcityresell]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

@dalo4242

For many being home to sign or making a trip to the post office is nearly impossible.

Then why buy by mail order/online at all?

If you are not at home, you are as capable of going to the post office as you are to the drugstore.
(Here in Canada, the postal outlet probably is in the drugstore, but I gather USPS does not have such satellite offices.)

If you are at home because of disability or children, you are there to sign and don't have to go to the post office.

The seller chooses the shipping service. If the buyer doesn't like it, she doesn't have to buy.

The only proof I need is that this buyer is refusing to sign and get her package.
I agree with the OP that it was her intention to claim Not Delivered, although just using Confirmation of Delivery may have been all that was necessary to win that.

I rarely track anything, because it is very expensive here. An 85 cent , 30 gram, domestic letter would cost at least $13.35 to Register and more if sent as a parcel.

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Speaking for myself, when I buy online if it doesn't mention Signature Required, I don't expect it to have to be signed for. I expect to come home from work, check my mailbox and get the key to the locked parcel box. If it came with signature required, it would not get signed for as I am not home during the day. Also, if something is held at my post office and I am required to go get it, it would never happen. I go to work before the post office opens and am off after it closes. It is not open on the weekends and it is not close to my work. I would have to take time off work to get a package that should have been delivered to my mailbox.

If I see that it's something i really want and it requires a signature, I send it to my work. IF OP sent it Signature Required without the buyer wanting it or without it being in the listings, then the buyer most likely didn't refuse anything. And I'm not sure how they were going to scam OP with regular delivery confirmation, which would have worked better in the first place, because once it was delivered, OP would have proof of delivery. Instead, OP had to go through this entire mess of a transaction.

[femmefan1946]

Sounds like the basic problem is that USPS post offices have limited hours.

f I see that it's something i really want and it requires a signature, I send it to my work.

That would not have worked for me at my last job before retiring.

My office was on the 28th floor and while the section I worked in had a name (Departmental Secretariat) there were about 50  workers there. More important, we answered all the mail that came in for the Minister of Indian Affairs. And Canadians love to write to government Ministers. We received around 500 letters daily.

But the specific doesn't mean the general is wrong.

It doesn't work for some people.

I understand that the OP seems to have been paying for Signature Confirmation on cheap items (under $20). Which is silly.

But it makes little sense to buy by mail if it will be difficult to receive mail. Either because of porch pirates, or inability to pick up parcels that are being held.

I am firm that the seller has the right to ship with a service that protects her, and if the customer doesn't like that, well we can't always get what we want.

[coolections]

I would also refuse to sign the slip if I was not going to be home. Stop making people sign for their packages as most people work and are not home. All you need is tracking UNLESS the item is $750 or more.

[coolections]

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@dtexley3 wrote:

@Anonymous  Buyer refused delivery, should have not been decided against the seller.  Please review.

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So do you think the buyer should have used a vacation day from work instead ? Buyer was not home to accept the item, he did not refuse the delivery.

[lunalapin1912]

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@softersilk wrote:

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@charlie_1990 wrote:

Buyer purchased collectible item. I always ship such items Priority Mail with signature service. Lately, unscrupulous buyers are claiming that they never received the package, so I’ve had to use signature service. This buyer initially refused to be home or have someone home to sign for the package. When his postman left the USPS “ attempted delivery” notice for his signature (so he could get his package delivered without being home), he refused again to sign. I think that this buyer had planned to scam me— collect his package and say he never got it. Using signature service kept that from happening, but this sneaky buyer found another tactic. He filed a “ not received” claim with EBay, EBay sided with him, despite tracking information showing attempted delivery. EBay debited me and refunded his money. My package was lost and I had to appeal the decision with EBay to recover my money. I was still charged all FVF’s. I had a second such issue with a buyer who purchased a new box of diapers—-yes, diapers—and am in the process of appealing that decision. I am suspending selling on EBay until they better protect sellers from unscrupulous buyers.

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I'm with you on signature required on packages over certain amount.  Helps me sleep at night.

What those buyers did is "mail fraud" and it's a federal crime.  I would do 3 things:

1) Call buyer's local USPS and notify the manager what their customer is doing.

2) You experienced a theft.  Take your paperwork to the police to file a theft report.  Ask the officer to file here: https://pages.ebay.com/securitycenter/law_enforcement.html

3) Report everywhere that alleges that eBay has seller protection: various executives (Bob Kupbens, Brian Burke, Harry Temkin, Griff) as well as Facebook: eBay for Business, eBay Newsroom and the main eBay page.

eBay enables and empowers criminals.  Take the time and fight.

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You gotta be kidding!  When did not being at home during the day become a fraud?  The seller wasn't defrauded, the seller made things too difficult for the buyer.  She couldn't make it to the post office.  The seller should refund and stop making buyers jump through hoops.  This seller just run off some buyers, and that means every seller is a loser because his actions shrunk the buyer pool.

[penguins_dont_fly]

femmefan wrote:

But it makes little sense to buy by mail if it will be difficult to receive mail. Either because of porch pirates, or inability to pick up parcels that are being held.

For me (corporate drone, on the bus)  it wasn't difficult to receive mail ... only mail requiring a signature that I was unaware would require one.

USPS Parcels were delivered to a parcel locker and the key left in my locked mailbox in a secure mailroom that was accessible 24/7. Oversized USPS, UPS and FedEx went to the complex office ... who would not sign for anything.

If something came UPS/FedEx, the office staff would call me and set up a time for picking it up after hours from overnight security staff ... they didn't want it sitting around 😉

I left my house at 6AM and, most nights, did not get home until after 7PM, including Saturdays. The Post Office is open 8-5 Monday through Friday. 9-12  on Saturday.

I shopped for everything online ... because my hours were long and because I had no transportation besides the bus. 

I even did most of my grocery shopping online (Vons) with delivery scheduled for their last run at night (8-9 PM)

I agree that a seller has the right to choose the carrier and method ... but ... SigCon on items that don't require it is not protecting the seller in any way and may be extremely inconvenient for buyers.

If a seller is going to ship with SigCon ... tell the buyer that it will require a signature up front. Put it in the description "All of our items require Signature Confirmation at Delivery" and maybe even follow up after shipping "Your item has shipped and will require a signature upon delivery".

[dhbookds]

Been awhile since I got one of these, so does it still work this way?........when no one home, carrier leaves a yellow slip stating that you can bring this to the PO OR you can sign that slip and let carrier deliver it the next day without signing for it (you don't have to be home)?  Presumably that covers the PO for the delivery signature........

If it does still work that way........I've never understood the uproar about how much trouble a sig requires, but maybe it's changed. 

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

The PO does not always leave a slip. Sometimes they forget or it blows away.

The point is that SigCon is pointless and inconvenient. At best the buyer has to wait extra days to get their item. At worst they may never get it at all.

All for $20? SMH.

[dalo4242]

I am firm that the seller has the right to ship with a service that protects her, and if the customer doesn't like that, well we can't always get what we want.
____

If a seller wants to use signature confirmation they need to tell the buyer up front.

I work out of town, my husband works 12 hour days.

This fall I had the option of taking a day off work to collect a $10 item from the post office or saying forget about it and working. $19 an hour job vs $10 item. Sure hubby could have taken time off...@$25 an hour for a $10 item...

I can't have stuff sent to me at work and neither can my husband because our jobsites change, and we only go to the main office when we have to.

I lit the seller up over it, left feedback about it and let it go back to the seller. The seller refunded then had the nerve to tell me "Do the right thing, remove the feedback telling people I make you sign for cheap items and I'll send it to you for free'. Yeah thanks but no thanks.

[r.a.comer2]

Charlie, I don't blame you !!! I sell collectibles and ship through Federal Express Home Delivery or Ground.  The packages are left at the door and not handed to the buyer without a signature.  If the packaged gets stolen, Fed X will NOT refund your money if the item was NOT signed for.  The buyer can file a claim with eBay and get their money back too.  Packages have to be signed for when the item sold for over $100.00 on my sales and I state such on my item description in the auction.  So, if if the buyer does not want to sign for an item, don't buy it!!!  Via eBay rules, when the buyer makes a purchase on eBay, they are obligated to be home or make arrangements to recieve the package.  Be especially aware of buyers who live in apartments in large cities, especially New York and San Francisco are the worst for stolen deliveries and scams.  I've been dealing with a buyer in New York who bought a $400.00 object, who did not want to sign for the object, has missed 4 consecutive day deliveries, now the object is being held at the station for 10 business days and he still won't pick it up.  It's ridiculous.  What I'm finding is, this guy has played this game before, yet he has excellent feedback.  Nuts ...

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

@dalo4242

For many being home to sign or making a trip to the post office is nearly impossible.

Then why buy by mail order/online at all?

If you are not at home, you are as capable of going to the post office as you are to the drugstore.
(Here in Canada, the postal outlet probably is in the drugstore, but I gather USPS does not have such satellite offices.)

If you are at home because of disability or children, you are there to sign and don't have to go to the post office.

The seller chooses the shipping service. If the buyer doesn't like it, she doesn't have to buy.

The only proof I need is that this buyer is refusing to sign and get her package.
I agree with the OP that it was her intention to claim Not Delivered, although just using Confirmation of Delivery may have been all that was necessary to win that.

I rarely track anything, because it is very expensive here. An 85 cent , 30 gram, domestic letter would cost at least $13.35 to Register and more if sent as a parcel.

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Because you have people like my fiancée who works 7-6 on weekdays.  He’s not home to sign for packages and he’s at work during hours the post office is open for package pick up.  any places to buy things are 1 hour to two round trips for shopping so online shopping is an awesome game changer