VERO program no longer protects you from image or text copyright

[michaelbb2]

I just recently made a VERO claim against another listing for using my pictures to sell their products.  I have done this successfully for as long as the VERO program came to play.  This time however, a totally different response from VERO. 

"

Hello,

Thank you for contacting eBay's Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) Program regarding the unauthorized use of images and/or text from your eBay listing(s).

Per eBay's User Agreement, we do not take action on reports where images and/or text were copied from one eBay listing and used in another. As such, we are unable to assist you with your request. Please refer to section 9 of the User Agreement here for more information:

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behaviour-policies/user-agreement?id=4259#9.%20Content

Thank you in advance for your understanding in this matter."

If you post it on eBay, you have no copyright protection unless you are a registered brand I guess.  The policy use to state that as long as you own the photo, you own the rights to it.  Ebay is making the shift towards an Amazon style selling platform where if you upload a photo...the selling platform owns it now.  Ebay can take your photo and put it in the catalogue as they wish.  Once this happens, anybody can use it on eBay.  Since watermarks are not allowed on pictures anymore, we really have no way of protecting our images unless we are branded?

Is anyone else having issues related to this?

[mg152]

Yes, this was announced some time ago. Unless you opt out Ebay makes your pics part of their catalog to be used by anyone and I really don’t think they ever cared about text.

[gamersbaystore]

First off, you have every legal right to request the images be removed. Secondly, you should file a DMCA take down notice with ebay's legal department. If they refuse to acknowledge your request for removal of the images, you then have the right to sue ebay, as well as the seller who stole your images and used them without your permission.

VERO is platform specific, not really a legal action, but DMCA notices are not a joke, it is the law and ebay has to comply. DMCA is a real legal notice, VERO is not.

Likewise, ebay's response they provided you is a violation of federal law regarding DMCA once a notice is served.

[7606dennis]

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@gamersbaystore wrote:

First off, you have every legal right to request the images be removed. Secondly, you should file a DMCA take down notice with ebay's legal department. If they refuse to acknowledge your request for removal of the images, you then have the right to sue ebay, as well as the seller who stole your images and used them without your permission.

VERO is platform specific, not really a legal action, but DMCA notices are not a joke, it is the law and ebay has to comply. DMCA is a real legal notice, VERO is not.

Likewise, ebay's response they provided you is a violation of federal law regarding DMCA once a notice is served.

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Since eBay has granted themselves the non-exclusive right to use any material uploaded to the site in their UA, I'm not sure how successful such an action would be.  Unfortunately, to file an infringement case is quite expensive and the amount of any recover is limited unless the copyright has been registered.  

[prettyinplaid]

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@mg152 wrote:
Yes, this was announced some time ago. Unless you opt out Ebay makes your pics part of their catalog to be used by anyone and I really don’t think they ever cared about text.

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Ebay did care about text. 

And VERO does handle stolen pictures despite the UA change....sellers have been using this to have their stolen pictures removed https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/listing-and-marketing/verified-rights-owner-program.html#m17-1-...

[hillbillymedia]

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@7606dennis wrote:

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@gamersbaystore wrote:

First off, you have every legal right to request the images be removed. Secondly, you should file a DMCA take down notice with ebay's legal department. If they refuse to acknowledge your request for removal of the images, you then have the right to sue ebay, as well as the seller who stole your images and used them without your permission.

VERO is platform specific, not really a legal action, but DMCA notices are not a joke, it is the law and ebay has to comply. DMCA is a real legal notice, VERO is not.

Likewise, ebay's response they provided you is a violation of federal law regarding DMCA once a notice is served.

---

Since eBay has granted themselves the non-exclusive right to use any material uploaded to the site in their UA, I'm not sure how successful such an action would be.  Unfortunately, to file an infringement case is quite expensive and the amount of any recover is limited unless the copyright has been registered.  

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I agree but the UA doesn`t trump law and sooner or later ebay is going to fall off the tightrope they straddle.

[gamersbaystore]

Ebay can can draw up whatever policies they want, but they will not and do not override federal laws regarding copyright infringement.

And no, it is not expensive to file a DMCA notice, in fact its free. It is expensive to actually sue though. Anyone can file a DMCA take down notice on their own behalf.

You are correct that the amount one could sue for would be limited without a registered copyright. But DMCA guidelines would still require the images be removed. If the infringer does not comply, then the rights holder does have the right to sue for monetary damages.

As for ebay, their failure to comply with a proper DMCA notice could get them into a lot of trouble financially, more so than even the person who stole the images to begin with. Because the images are stored on their platform, they hold the most liability.

[dhbookds]

are you a registered Vero member?

[juststuffisell]

So I am going to play devils advocate.

Without (edited) a legal copyright filing, eBay has no idea who actually owns the images. ie. who took them etc. without a copyright actually being filed with old .gov
https://www.copyright.gov/title17/

I have filed a lot of documents and images for copyright protection. I have never filed for copyright protect for images of a used item that I didn't make/manufacture. I don't know what you are selling. I have no idea if it is stuff you make, or stuff someone else makes. It is a gray area really. I can just tell you I have never hesitate to buy the rights to use an images I wanted to use in business.

Are you claiming copyright protection on the image as an artist? So you are selling the images? Or are you actually selling the item pictured in the image and consider the photographs your work. If you consider them your work and not for public domain, then I believe you need to actually file for copyright protection to supersede any TOU with copyright law.

Filing a DMCA is cheap and easy. Defending one is not cheap, nor easy. If you cannot defend your DMCA you may find yourself sued.

Most brands you talk about that are participating in the vero system, spend a small fortune just in registering trademarks, filing for copyright protections and patents. If successful, they spend a larger ransom defending those rights from people trying to profit off the hard work they put in building said brand, content and image.

If you were an artist that made your living creating unique images for resale, you would file for copyright protection on those images. If you consider your images to be that - file for copyright protection on your images before you upload them to eBay. Then, IMHO, you will have a copyright to defend. Beyond that, what you have is basically a he said she said scenario.

I know.. you put a lot of work into setup and presentation to create a "image" and "brand" for selling your items. A lot people do. Do I think others should use your work? No. I think it is low brow as someone that has actually had to file multiple DMCA to have other websites using copyright protected content & trademarks taken down.

My attorney used to tell me - just because you created "it", if you don't spend the money to protect it, you can't complain when someone else steals it.

Cheers

[michaelbb2]

I have been registered with VERO for a few years now. Up until now, they took down any listing that copied my photo's or even text within the description. They do not remove copied title as this is considered "fact" and also copied directly by eBay when someone uses the "sell one similar" button....that's fine. I don't feel at this point that this is worth pursuing any further since my photo's are not Art but just common pics of everyday items that anybody can take themselves. The photo's are however mine and took a lot of work to take, crop, upload etc. I only used the VERO system because it was a lot easier than trying to convince another seller that the pics they were using are in fact copied unlawfully.
Thanks for all the responses. I should probably see this as a compliment in my photography skills but it still stings.

[michaelbb2]

This was VERO's stance just months ago for the exact same type of claim:

"Thank you for contacting us.

We are pleased to inform you that the following listing(s) you reported have been removed from eBay in response to the Notice of Claimed Infringement you recently sent:

XXXXXXXXXXXX (sellers identity and item number blotted out)

We have notified the seller and all participating bidders that the

listing(s) has been removed due to your request. 

If the Notice of Claimed Infringement contained items that are not listed above you will receive a separate email communication about those items.

These notices may arrive at different times (over a period of up to several hours) as items for different sellers are processed separately.

If you should have any questions or concerns regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

VeRO Program"

I'm just giving everybody a heads up about the change.  Good luck sellers!!

[classic_luxe]

I just reported a listing 5 days ago that copied and pasted my title and entire listing description even though the description did not match what they were listing. The offending seller's listing was removed the same day. By the way, I did notify the seller first and asked her to remove or change it and she basically told me to "get a life" and she would "pray for me". 

[greek38]

EBAY OWNS EVERYTHING YOU DO(so they say). I remember when ebay was a friendly & fun place to deal... those days are long gone... Ebay became a greedy pig years ago, that is why I do not do much on here anymore. cragslist & facbook are good alternitives for small sellers & buyers

[7606dennis]

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@juststuffisell wrote:

So I am going to play devils advocate.

Without (edited) a legal copyright filing, eBay has no idea who actually owns the images. ie. who took them etc. without a copyright actually being filed with old .gov
https://www.copyright.gov/title17/

I have filed a lot of documents and images for copyright protection. I have never filed for copyright protect for images of a used item that I didn't make/manufacture. I don't know what you are selling. I have no idea if it is stuff you make, or stuff someone else makes. It is a gray area really. I can just tell you I have never hesitate to buy the rights to use an images I wanted to use in business.

Are you claiming copyright protection on the image as an artist? So you are selling the images? Or are you actually selling the item pictured in the image and consider the photographs your work. If you consider them your work and not for public domain, then I believe you need to actually file for copyright protection to supersede any TOU with copyright law.

Filing a DMCA is cheap and easy. Defending one is not cheap, nor easy. If you cannot defend your DMCA you may find yourself sued.

Most brands you talk about that are participating in the vero system, spend a small fortune just in registering trademarks, filing for copyright protections and patents. If successful, they spend a larger ransom defending those rights from people trying to profit off the hard work they put in building said brand, content and image.

If you were an artist that made your living creating unique images for resale, you would file for copyright protection on those images. If you consider your images to be that - file for copyright protection on your images before you upload them to eBay. Then, IMHO, you will have a copyright to defend. Beyond that, what you have is basically a he said she said scenario.

I know.. you put a lot of work into setup and presentation to create a "image" and "brand" for selling your items. A lot people do. Do I think others should use your work? No. I think it is low brow as someone that has actually had to file multiple DMCA to have other websites using copyright protected content & trademarks taken down.

My attorney used to tell me - just because you created "it", if you don't spend the money to protect it, you can't complain when someone else steals it.

Cheers

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Actually, I hate to disagree with your attorney but since you own the copyright from the instant that you create it you have every right to complain.  Unfortunately, complaining and recovering damages are not the same thing.