Unpreventable Scam?

[stevenborck]

A couple weeks ago I got scammed on a high priced item I sold. The buyer claimed I sent them the wrong item in hopes I would be forced to give them a full refund so that they'd get the actual item I sent them for free. I have proof that I sent them the correct item, but my appeal was unsuccessful because I can't prove that someone from USPS didn't switch out the item during transit.

This means that there is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent this scam. It's also literally impossible to prove that the person is scamming you unless you can prove that the package wasn't tampered with during transit.

The best idea I have to possibly counteract this scam, with how easily eBay will side with the buyer in almost every case, is to user tamper evidence tape. The buyer would still be able to open the package and claim that the tape was tampered with before they received it. Obviously you'd be able to pursue the matter with USPS, but it still wouldn't be enough to not be forced to refund the buyer.

[mam98031]

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@12345jamesstamps wrote:

The "no returns"...buyer thinks they can get a refund and don't have to return anything.

I decided to finally accept returns to make buyer to return item before a refund. It makes buyer to repackage item and go to the post office or UPS or whatever to mail it since not all buyers like to have to go through the time to send something back. Plus they don't get a refund until the tracking shows item has been returned to you. I suggest accepting returns on your future items up for sale. Make the buyer do some work to get that refund. 

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@12345jamesstamps 

You misunderstand what a No Return policy is.

The return policies options are as follows.

1. No Returns
2. 30 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
3. 60 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
4. 30 day returns w/ seller pays shipping, AKA Free Returns
5. 60 day returns w/ seller pays shipping. AKA Free Returns
6. 14 Day returns in certain categories

With option number 1, No Returns the seller can completely deny taking a return for a Buyer's Remorse Return Request, if the buyer properly filed the claim.  Or if they want to they can accept the return and have the buyer pay the return shipping.  If the seller so chooses they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer.

On options 2 & 3 the buyer is responsible for the return shipping on a Buyer's Remorse Return.  Plus if the seller so chooses they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer. As of October 1st 2019, sellers that are TRS have some additional protections as well as they can issue partial refunds if they options 2 or 3 as their return policy.

On options 4 & 5 above, they are also known as Free Returns.  If a seller that has either of those policies they will pay the return shipping even on a buyer's remorse return.  A seller can withhold the original shipping value from the refund if the shipping was separately stated in the listing [not free shipping].  Also Seller’s offering options 4 or 5 have the ability to do partial refunds in certain cases if the item arrives back damaged, missing something or in a condition less than what it was sent to the buyer in, see the policy for more details, the link is below.  In the cases where a deduction in the refund is taken due to damage or other authorized reasons for a partial refund, Ebay will protect the seller from negative or neutral feedback.

ALL OPTIONS [1, 2, 3, 4 and 5] are required to process SNAD claims without exception.  Even if they are improperly filed and should have been a Buyer’s Remorse claim.

All return policies by sellers must meet or exceed what is stated in the Money Back Guarantee Policy!

14 day return policies are allowed in certain categories: Jewelry & Watches, Collectibles & Art, Cameras & Photo and Medical, Mobility & Disability Equipment.

For those with Free Return and/or TRS members with 30 day return policies, there are some added protection benefits, one of which is the ability to do a discounted refund under certain conditions.

[mam98031]

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@stevenborck wrote:

At the very least I can prove what they returned is not the same as what I sent them (I have very solid evidence of this). In theory I could take a video of me packing the box and driving it to the post office, but it would be absolutely useless to do anyways.

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Ebay will not accept any such video but it may be helpful if you were to file a police report and with USPS if you shipped via them.

[luckythewinner]

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@stevenborck wrote:

I have proof that I sent them the correct item

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You may have evidence, but you do not have proof. 

[12345jamesstamps]

I fully understand the return policy. I have sold a few items I think.

I am just giving what might happen...and its my own opinion...no offense.

Reading all the sellers posting here we get a lot of situations and such.

I am kind of going on experience from all the postings I read here...just my opinion...no offense.

And then there's always that credit card chargeback by a buyer which kind of gives the buyer their money back regardless of no returns with "option number 1"...just my opinion.

[powell-memorabilia]

Tamper tape doesn't do much.  Even if eBay knew that your item was received with tamper tape intact, how do they know that you didn't send the wrong item?  Some sellers video themselves packing expensive items (I've done it, too - no judgment here), but that doesn't mean anything to eBay.  Heck, how does eBay know that you didn't pack up the right item, then turn off the camera and pack up a cheaper item?  

[soh.maryl]

If a buyer opens an item not as described case, you, the seller send them a return label, then refund when your item is returned.  That way, you have your item back and can re-sell.

Don't exactly understand why any seller would choose to handle this any other way.  

[a_c_green]

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@stevenborck wrote:

The best idea I have to possibly counteract this scam, with how easily eBay will side with the buyer in almost every case, is to user tamper evidence tape. The buyer would still be able to open the package and claim that the tape was tampered with before they received it. Obviously you'd be able to pursue the matter with USPS, but it still wouldn't be enough to not be forced to refund the buyer.

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I don't think tamper-evident tape is going to help you there as eBay is not going to take sides, and has no idea what was sealed into the box under that tape. (They don't view photos or videos either, as there is no way to establish provenance or show what happened after photography or recording stopped.)

When you first posted here about that $1000 sale of a security ID tag machine, it was suggested that you pursue this with your local police, as well as the post office, as that item does have more than the usual level of security issues in terms of being able to make fake security tags. Have you made any further progress with that yet?

[sin-n-dex]

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@albertabrightalberta wrote:

I have another suggestion that I've had decent luck with. While it could be an empty threat, I've found that scammers suddenly "find" the missing items after they read the message.

Before accepting the "return for refund," I'd send a message along the lines of this: 

"Dear buyer, 

I'm sorry you claim not to have received the item I sent. If someone tampered with the package, that's mail fraud and is a crime. USPS and the government take tampering with US mail very seriously and will investigate all claims and prosecute to the fullest extent of the law. 

I will be filing a complaint with the US inspector general and will supply them with your contact information included name, address and phone number. They will expect your full cooperation.

As soon as you confirm that you didn't receive the correct item, I shall submit my report for investigation.

Sincerely, 

Your not-to-be-scammed seller" 

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That's because most scammers don't want to get involved with any official investigation, and they don't know if you're serious or not, so why risk it.

On International items it's a lot more difficult to send any kind of message like that... I guess that's why many people don't ship internationally. (A good portion of my better stuff is USA only).

C.

[greatstuff80]

"In theory I could take a video of me packing the box and driving it to the post office, but it would be absolutely useless to do anyways." Yes , that is useless. I've seen more than one person say they did just this and ebay sided with the buyer anyway. 

[greatstuff80]

Then there's the buyer scam where they send you back rocks or an empty box and ebay still sides with them. 

[greatstuff80]

Local police and the PO view this stuff as bottom of the priority list. Rarely does anything ever happen. 

[legacydealz]

I like this one. Has it been successful?

[dbfolks166mt]

You misunderstand what a No Return policy is.

The return policies options are as follows.

1. No Returns
2. 30 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
3. 60 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
4. 30 day returns w/ seller pays shipping, AKA Free Returns
5. 60 day returns w/ seller pays shipping. AKA Free Returns
6. 14 Day returns in certain categories

With option number 1, No Returns the seller can completely deny taking a return for a Buyer's Remorse Return Request, if the buyer properly filed the claim.  Or if they want to they can accept the return and have the buyer pay the return shipping.  If the seller so chooses they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer.

On options 2 & 3 the buyer is responsible for the return shipping on a Buyer's Remorse Return.  Plus if the seller so chooses they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer. As of October 1st 2019, sellers that are TRS have some additional protections as well as they can issue partial refunds if they options 2 or 3 as their return policy.

On options 4 & 5 above, they are also known as Free Returns.  If a seller that has either of those policies they will pay the return shipping even on a buyer's remorse return.  A seller can withhold the original shipping value from the refund if the shipping was separately stated in the listing [not free shipping].  Also Seller’s offering options 4 or 5 have the ability to do partial refunds in certain cases if the item arrives back damaged, missing something or in a condition less than what it was sent to the buyer in, see the policy for more details, the link is below.  In the cases where a deduction in the refund is taken due to damage or other authorized reasons for a partial refund, Ebay will protect the seller from negative or neutral feedback.

ALL OPTIONS [1, 2, 3, 4 and 5] are required to process SNAD claims without exception.  Even if they are improperly filed and should have been a Buyer’s Remorse claim.

All return policies by sellers must meet or exceed what is stated in the Money Back Guarantee Policy!

14 day return policies are allowed in certain categories: Jewelry & Watches, Collectibles & Art, Cameras & Photo and Medical, Mobility & Disability Equipment.

For those with Free Return and/or TRS members with 30 day return policies, there are some added protection benefits, one of which is the ability to do a discounted refund under certain conditions.

You left off number 7. Buyer opens a NAD chargeback with their CC Company in which case 1-6 do not apply unless the eBay chargeback seller protection covers it. 

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/payment-dispute-seller-protections?id=5293

[nocoolnamejane]

eBay’s Money Back Guarantee is aligned with most payment processors. If eBay didn’t have the MBG, buyers would go straight to their payment source, which, in many cases would mean a dispute fee on top of the refund.

It’s not much, but eBay does provide some protection for sellers against item not received disputes when a seller has online delivery confirmation to the address provided at checkout.

As far as items not as described, there isn’t much they can do, but at least, when the sellers cooperate with the dispute, they ask the buyers to send the item back. Many credit card processors only ask that the buyer make the item available for the seller to retrieve.

I believe most disputes are filed in good faith, if a majority of them were filed fraudulently, eBay would be out of business. It’s just that we only read about the bad ones because very few sellers are going to come and post about how they messed up a transaction, processed the buyers return and everything happened as expected.

[rugerskick]

However, usps takes photos of packages when they are in transit to when they are dropped off to the local post office for delivery.  I have had them use this for me several times for various package issues.

You would probably have photos that could show damage to the tape during transit.  However with tamper tape, I doubt usps folks would be that stupid to try to open it and then send an empty box.  If they wanted to target a box with tamper tape they would just take the package and it would never be delivered.