eBay

ovlm4341 · ‎05-05-2021

I'm a first time seller selling an expensive item. I'm trying to devise a bulletproof way to not get scammed, even if it costs quite a bit extra. My current plan is to ship the item through the USPS with Insured Restricted Delivery (+ signature confirmation?, not sure if restricted delivery includes signature confirmation) and thoroughly document the packaging process, mainly by recording the entire thing. Even if that isn't enough to win under ebay's dispute policy, I do think it's enough to win either an arbitration or a mail fraud case. I want to make sure I'm understanding everything correctly; would this provide me with complete protection?

ovlm4341 · ‎05-05-2021

Oh I could sell it today and get more than I would make on eBay, but yes I'm certain it's not an option.

popblox · ‎05-05-2021

What it really comes down to is there is very little chance that an honest buyer will purchase from you right now. I would never purchase an expensive item from a brand new seller - most honest buyers would steer clear of you. Because of this, your risk rate for getting scammed is very close to 100%.

If you feel fully prepared to fight the scam, then go for it. If you want to actually sell the item and keep the money, you'll have to work very hard on first building up your feedback/reputation/inventory/sales, etc. As you gain experience and build your reputation as a trustworthy seller, the scam risk rate slowly will begin to decrease.

gracieallen01 · ‎05-05-2021

@ovlm4341

"I want to make sure I'm understanding everything correctly; would this provide me with complete protection?"

Hehehehehehehehehahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohoho!

No, but thank you for a good laugh.

Not saying 'NO' doesn't mean 'YES'.

The foolishness of one's actions or words is determined by the number of witnesses.

Perhaps if Brains were described as an APP, many people would use them more often.

Respect, like money, is only of 'worth' when it is earned - with all due respect, it can not be ordained, legislated or coerced. Anonymous

coolections · ‎05-06-2021

@ovlm4341 wrote:
Oh I could sell it today and get more than I would make on eBay, but yes I'm certain it's not an option.

Why in the world would someone who could sell the item immediately AND get more money not want to do that ? Stolen ?

soh.maryl · ‎05-06-2021

Why do you "not have a choice in the matter"?

It's YOUR item, right? And you are selling it on eBay, even though it will net less profit, and expose you to greater risk?

I just don't get it.

soh.maryl · ‎05-06-2021

OP, for some reason, states that he knows he could net more with less risk by selling somewhere else, but has no choice in the matter.

I asked why that would be.

luckythewinner · ‎05-06-2021

The first is taking ebay to small claims or arbitration. The agreement to arbitrate states that for claims under a certain amount ($2000?) ebay will cover arbitration fees.

That is true - unless the arbitrator deems the abritration to be frivilous, in which case you must reimburse eBay for the cost. In arbitration, you will need to prove that eBay was at fault - at which point eBay will argue that the buyer was the one who defrauded you, not eBay. I also think you may have trouble navigating these two bits of the User Agreeement:

"You agree to comply with the policy and permit us to make a final decision on any eBay Money Back Guarantee case."

"We reserve the right to refuse, modify, or terminate all or part of our Services to anyone for any reason at our discretion."

The other option is to go after the buyer, ideally both through criminal (mail fraud) and civil (breach of contract, tort, etc) means.

I do not think that you can "go after" someone for a federal mail fraud claim. You can report it, but I think that requires a U.S. Attorney to agree to take your case and go after them on your behalf.

For small claims court, you will need to determine who perpetrated the fraud, not just whose eBay account was used or who the item was shipped to. Then you will need your local court to assert personal jurisdiction over someone who probably lives in another state (or even another country, if they used a mail forwarding service). That is not trivial.

And after you win, you will need to figure out how to collect the judgement, because the court does not do that for you. And for an out-of-state judgement, that is probably even harder than a local judgement.

maxine*j · ‎05-06-2021

@ovlm4341 wrote:
Oh I could sell it today and get more than I would make on eBay, but yes I'm certain it's not an option.

Uh... That's a new one to me. I'm not asking you to explain that statement, but it's enough to make me feel that any advice I might give would be irrelevant.

I'll remind you only that there is no way to avoid loss in any business. Retail stores with high-tech security devices and personnel still lose stock on a daily basis. Banks get robbed. Restaurants have dine-and-dashers. Et cetera. All any business can do is take reasonable and necessary precautions against loss, while factoring loss into its expenses.

=

bonjourami · ‎05-06-2021

"THE FINAL SALE IS SUBJECT TO A MANUAL REVIEW OF BUYER FEEDBACK."

I do love this in your tos..you dont even know that buyers are allowed to receive only positive feedback for many years now.

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“Never pick a fight with an ugly person. They don’t have anything to lose.” ~Robin Williams

southern*sweet*tea · ‎05-06-2021

Bless your heart.

My grandma always said "don't borrow trouble".

You're not only borrowing trouble, you're begging for it.

The only "safe" way to do an expensive transaction is in person for cash. If you sell an item online ANYWHERE (not just Ebay) using a reversible form of payment - Paypal or credit/debit cards - any buyer can steal your item from you at any time and there's nothing you can do to stop them. NOTHING.

Sure, you can to through the legal process which can take years and thousands of dollars and you still may not get your money back. Are you willing to do that?

The easier you are to offend the easier you are to control.

We seem to be getting closer and closer to a situation where nobody is responsible for what they did but we are all responsible for what somebody else did. - Thomas Sowell

bonjourami · ‎05-06-2021

And then theres this...priceless. Op, you are an accident waiting to happen,you would do well to read up on Ebays money back guarantee..

" RETURNS WILL BE ACCEPTED FOR A FULL REFUND ONLY IF THE ITEM IS RETURNED IN THE EXACT CONDITION IT WAS SHIPPED IN!!!!! If the item's condition has changed (no longer factory sealed, used, etc) there will be a partial refund."

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“Never pick a fight with an ugly person. They don’t have anything to lose.” ~Robin Williams

m60driver · ‎05-06-2021

@maxine*j wrote:
I'll remind you only that there is no way to avoid loss in any business. Retail stores with high-tech security devices and personnel still lose stock on a daily basis. Banks get robbed. Restaurants have dine-and-dashers. Et cetera. All any business can do is take reasonable and necessary precautions against loss, while factoring loss into its expenses.

This may be true, but a brick and mortar store can take additional security precautions when selling expensive items such as keeping the item in a locked case without having any obligation to even take the item out of the case when the potential buyer seems a bit shady. Ebay does not allow a seller to take additional precautions, they make little to no effort to mitigate risk because they have no skin in the game apart from a potential FVF. Also, as a brick & mortar store owner, I had the final say on any return and could place the ball in the buyers court as to whether they wanted to dispute the transaction. People are far less likely to attempt a scam when dealing face to face with a small business owner who is calling their bluff. And all this is a large part of why I would not be likely to sell an expensive item on Ebay unless I had both volume and high margins to handle a potential loss. I do have the margins to absorb the losses on the lower worth widgets I have listed.

maxine*j · ‎05-06-2021

Oh, I agree with you that the two situations (brick-and-mortar vs on-line) are not entirely comparable but my point was only to remind OP that there is simply no such thing as a "bulletproof" business transaction. Period. And the sooner he gets over that notion, the safer he will actually be.

Anyhow, the graphics card has sold for $1,460 + shipping, so all our breath has been wasted.

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silverstatetreasureboxes · ‎05-06-2021

@ovlm4341

@ovlm4341 wrote:
Sorry I should've clarified

There are two (three?) courses of action should I get scammed and ebay initially sides with the buyer

The first is taking ebay to small claims or arbitration. The agreement to arbitrate states that for claims under a certain amount ($2000?) ebay will cover arbitration fees.

The other option is to go after the buyer, ideally both through criminal (mail fraud) and civil (breach of contract, tort, etc) means. I don't intend on getting them into arbitration.

I am in agreement that the mail fraud case is a long shot, but it's also a good deterrent. The odds that it works are slim, but I don't think too many people would be willing to risk it.

While videos can be faked surely having a video is better than not having one, right? Another thought I had would be to subpoena the post office security camera footage (should this escalate to a court case)

Oh good grief, subpoenas, arbitration, small claims...Your a brand new seller, please listen to all the advice from the experienced sellers here and don't start listing a big expensive item right off the bat. You are a scammers dream machine big time.