This listing was removed for violating our Counterfeit items policy

[debbie6438]

Three of my listings for a 77 year old phonograph record was removed because of “Counterfeit Items Policy”????? Bilt More Records was a company that started in the late 1940's and they did reissue older recordings from the 1920's and early 30's. RCA sued them and closed them down for reissuing titles that RCA had no interest at the time, but wanted to play ruff with Bilt-More Records thus closing them down. They did have a nice size catalog before closing their label down. Okay I get that, but I and other sellers have been selling these 78rpm records for decades, so now RCA wants to come after these 77 years old records, of recordings made 90 years ago! Somehow I don't think that a copyright violation would bring enough cash in to merit any legal action in a court! Any court would toss this one out! This is so dumb! As my three listings were removed dozens are still for sale on eBay? So whats going on here? Some other seller wanted my three down, so they could sell their copies? Who knows! So don't list anything that's 77 years old! You may get in trouble! RCA will come knocking on your door!

[chevymontecarlo88]

So whats going on here? Some other seller wanted my three down, so they could sell their copies?

I would guess you are correct. ☝️

[fashunu4eeuh]

Hi @debbie6438 

Sorry for your plight. Below is the Counterfeit Item policy, just in case you have not seen it.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/counterfeit-item-policy?id=4276

Could you clarify—so this was this a Vero takedown st the behest of RCA for unauthorized recordings from 77 years ago? Or are they saying these valuable records are being counterfeited now? In other words, they are contemporary pressings made to appear authentic?

Thank you .

[debbie6438]

There is no way on earth anybody in 2024 would boot-leg a Bilt-More 78rpm record! Or for that matter – ever! The cost of making the “master” and “Mother” and “Stampers” along with the labels,

then pressing copies and trying to make the money back would be impossible! Jazz is on the bottom

of the recorded music food chain, and some early jazz such as Dixieland Jazz is dead! These Bilt-More

pressings are from the later 1940's. When RCA took them to court, the label folded because it simply

could not make enough money after the law suit. If you are lucky you might get 20 bucks for one

of these, but most collectors pan them, because they know they are re-issues. The bottom line here is

this - eBay is insane!

[debbie6438]

What else could it be? The eBay Carnivore software looks for 1940's boot-leg phonograph records????

The gal told us on the phone “copyright claim” was the reason it was pulled, she won't tell us who

asked them to take down the listings? IF it was RCA? They would have taken the other dozen or more listings down as well? I don't know what to think?

[gurlcat]

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@debbie6438 wrote:

What else could it be? The eBay Carnivore software looks for 1940's boot-leg phonograph records????

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Wait, just to be perfectly clear, you didn't have "boot-leg" anywhere in your title or description, right?  

[debbie6438]

correct! I know the words boot-leg get's you kicked off!

[gurlcat]

Whew okay just wanted to be sure.  I could picture a seller including that word instead of (or in addition to) "reissue" if there was some kind of record collector slang like that, lol.  

[gurlcat]

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@debbie6438 wrote:

What else could it be? The eBay Carnivore software looks for 1940's boot-leg phonograph records????

The gal told us on the phone “copyright claim” was the reason it was pulled, she won't tell us who

asked them to take down the listings? IF it was RCA? They would have taken the other dozen or more listings down as well? I don't know what to think?

---

Were you offering these for a lower price than any the others?  If so, I'd say the seller of the current lowest-price is probably your guy/gal, LOL.  

EDIT: or the one selling the exact same list of records (they would have no reason to report ones they're not selling). 

You could spin your wheels over it all day but unfortunately it wouldn't matter if you figure out exactly who/why.  eBay has spoken.  And forgive me if you knew this already but if you try to relist them by altering anything that you think "might" have flagged them the first time, you could very easily lose your whole account. 
  

[chevymontecarlo88]

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@debbie6438 wrote:

What else could it be? The eBay Carnivore software looks for 1940's boot-leg phonograph records????

The gal told us on the phone “copyright claim” was the reason it was pulled, she won't tell us who

asked them to take down the listings? IF it was RCA? They would have taken the other dozen or more listings down as well? I don't know what to think?

Someone probably reported your listing as noted. Happens all of the time but who knows exactly why. Try Discogs to list the record or another platform. I also would not cite Ebay CS as a reputable source for anything.

[debbie6438]

Here's a classic take down from many years ago, we found a super 8mm home movie of the Led Zepplin rock band! This was insane! Warner Brothers attorneys called eBay, and we called them! They said they own all the rights to the image of Led Zepplin! We said, but what if we took the movies? They said “as long as you don't try and sell them your okay, the minute you try and sell them we will stop you!” So eBay pulled the listing it was up to $1500.00 bucks! So one of the bidders got a hold of us and bought it for that price! Can you believe this? This is the level of insanity in the “free market Place”

[debbie6438]

I know - you are right! I did try and relist them, they took them down within a day!

[tobaccocardyahoo]

If it was a copyright claim, it would likely be the copyright owner, not RCA which made it.

There are heirs to the owner of some copyrights who are  protective of their IP rights, and if they stumble across the listing would make a complaint. Many would not do a systematic search of the site. And have no rights to anything else on that label.

These things happen. Given the history of the label, you should not be surprised you drew a copyright violation. But every record issued on the label is likely to have a different copyright owner.

[debbie6438]

I think the label in the 1940's re-issued whatever they wanted or could get a clean copy of the original.

Most were Victor's from the 1920's 

[debbie6438]

Sadly the internet has turned into one big “you can't say this” or “you can't do that!” When the internet first came out it was the wild west! Now it's a drag! You say one wrong thing on social media it could ruin your life! In the late 1990's and early 2000's eBay was kind of fun, there was no holds barred!

You could say whatever you wanted in feedback! It was crazy, but little by little the gate keepers

started to slap us down! What happened to free market?