11-21-2019 01:52 PM
I want to start out by saying that the ONLY reason I am posting this is as a WARNING to anyone who thinks eBay will protect their account in any way from retaliatory activity, and to TAKE PEOPLES' ADVICE ON HERE AND USE A SECOND ACCOUNT FOR BUYING!!! Here is my almost month long ordeal of dealing with a real, live psychopath on eBay.
Sorry in advance for how long this is, because of all the twists and turns and how long it's been going on:
Anyway, here goes. October 29th, purchased a listing for some Microsoft software I planned to resell on eBay. A few minutes later, my order was canceled. Sent email asking why my order was canceled, and promptly received brusque reply: "I don't sell to resellers". OK, based on my experienced, that is 99% proof he is selling counterfeits. I replied back to that effect and did not hear anything back.
Against my better judgment, later that afternoon, I left negative feedback to the effect of "seller canceled order with bogus excuse, probably selling fakes, F-".
A couple hours later that same evening, received a order of one my cheapest store items (older version of Adobe Photoshop Elements for 19.99 with free shipping). Let's say your ship to name on your buying side of eBay was your business name, like Acme Inc, instead of using your personal name. Well, this brand new buyer's ID was basically "AcmeIncsuucks" (looks like he threw a couple extra U's in there to avoid profanity filters). The only way for him to have gotten that "Acme Inc" name was to have sold something to me, namely that order he canceled earlier under his main seller account ID.
So anyway, I knew what was going on now (obviously). I waited, and then shortly afterwards, he requested a cancellation, which I granted. I think what he was planning was to order an item, request and get cancellation, and then leave negative feedback. Apparently he was unaware that this is not allowed when the buyer initiates the cancel request, but he learned quickly, as he never tried it again.
That ID was suspended at some point, I believe by eBay's automated systems (not by a real person).
Over the next week, using his REAL first name every time and a variety of made up last names, he proceeded to order more Elements software and have them ALL shipped to the same address, which was the address on that "AcmeIncsuucks" ID as well, btw. He wasn't even trying to hide, truth be told. He was just trying to avoid auto suspensions from eBay's system. For example, let's say his name was Fred. Well, one of his buying ID's used the name "Fred Frederick". He works at a subsidiary of a very well known, large HMO in Minnesota. Several of his ID's used last names made up from his company's name, like "Fred Humana", for example. The phone numbers were all just stolen out of the yellow pages, some of them from local business a couple miles from where I live. He also even used personal info like my LLC name in one of his buyer ID's.
On top of that, two of those ID's had positive feedbacks left buy the same seller that stated "won and never paid". The other three ID's had penny auction positive feedback from the SAME SELLER in NY, some jewelry dealer. Like I said, he wasn't even really trying to hide what he was doing.
At this point, I pretty much knew what was going to happen and I was talking to eBay constantly in a state of panic. All the reps said don't worry, we know what's going on, we agree this is not right, we'll take care of it. Needless to say, after "AcmeIncsuucks" was suspended, NO other action was taken on his made up accounts.
I want to point out that not all of these accounts were brand new ones. I believe two of them were literally 5 years old, like he kept them in storage in case he needed to wreak havoc with anyone.
So then the return requests started. All of them claiming the item was counterfeit, all written in the same manner (as if by the same person, obviously). Five in total. I was talking to eBay supervisors and reps several times a day. All said we're taking care of it, we're filing reports with Trust & Safety backend, etc etc. At one point, a supervisor actually got TWO of his buying ID's suspended, ONLY TO HAVE THOSE ID'S GET COMPLETELY REINSTATED A FEW HOURS LATER.
Also, around this time, HE GOT THE FEEDBACK I INITIALLY LEFT REMOVED, and I got a WARNING for feedback extortion (!!!). All the people I spoke to at eBay could not tell me why it happened except to say it should not have happened and the feedback I left was totally fine and compliant with eBay rules.
Around now, I got three escalations on three of those returns, all of which were naturally approved minutes later. He never even had to send these ones back, just got a full refund to his fake accounts and kept the items.
The chilling thing about these returns was the cordial, almost conversational tone in the buyer messages. Like you were talking to someone at the coffee stand you buy coffee from every morning. The returns even used phrases like "good evening". It distinctly reminded me of a movie where the bad guy is very polite and cordial until he slits someone's throat because of some minor thing they did to displease him.
I had it at this point. I hired an attorney and had a cease & desist letter created and mailed to his work address (where he was having the fake buyer ID's registered), and his actual home address, which wasn't hard to find. I also consulted a harassment attorney in case more action was needed. Total cost for this: $1600.
I did this to prevent negative feedbacks from being left, and it worked. He didn't do any of that and didn't create more ID's, but he did persist on the returns and got one more escalated (I did not approve that one because one supervisor said that particular return wouldn't be covered anyway under buyer protection, but it was bad info).
So yep at this point, NO ACTION has been taken against any of these ID's, they are all still active and very obviously the same person (even a two year old could figure this out). My warning to you all: EBAY DOESN'T GIVE A FLYING YOU KNOW WHAT. 3k in fees every month and they just let this psychopath do whatever he wants while they lie to you on the phone and promise to take action and take care of it. About the only think eBay actually did was remove the defects for the escalated cases.
So yep I've talked to what seems like every single person at eBay, I have escalated to a dozen different "backend" departments, I have reached out to eBay's social media team (of course, they promised an investigation etc etc). Not a single thing has been done so far, all his ID's are perfectly fine as far as I can see. Ironically, if you google the ID that started all this, the one I bought from, the only result that comes up is a blog post warning people not to buy from him because he sells fake USB flash drives.
11-21-2019 06:22 PM - edited 11-21-2019 06:23 PM
"I think this needs to be investigated properly if the facts are as stated as if so, is absolutely absurd.
tyler@ebay
brian.t@ebay"
Hello papermoneyforme,
I've already reported this individual to what feels like half of eBay. Will it do any additional good to also email the two eBay employees you mentioned?
11-21-2019 06:28 PM
@jacevoid wrote:"I think this needs to be investigated properly if the facts are as stated as if so, is absolutely absurd.
tyler@ebay
brian.t@ebay"
Hello papermoneyforme,
I've already reported this individual to what feels like half of eBay. Will it do any additional good to also email the two eBay employees you mentioned?
One of them or both should respond to this thread but probably not till tomorrow.
11-21-2019 07:15 PM - edited 11-21-2019 07:18 PM
@jacevoid wrote:The blocked bidder list is a favorite of mine. Of course, it does nothing if the individual creates additional accounts, or here's a screwed up little bit of info, if he CHANGES his user ID, that COMPLETELY circumvents your initial block!
I don't believe simply changing the user ID (e.g. a_c_green or jacevoid) can evade the BBL, as that works with the internal user number assigned to that account (not the user-chosen ID name), which never changes. Setting up a new account will work to avoid the BBL, since the new account will have a new internal user number.
11-21-2019 07:23 PM
don't believe simply changing the user ID (e.g. a_c_green or jacevoid) can evade the BBL, as that works with the internal user number assigned to that account (not the user-chosen ID name), which never changes. Setting up a new account will work to avoid the BBL, since the new account will have a new internal user number.
I can't say for sure because it didn't happen to me, but I read a story from another eBay user who went through exactly this situation and reported that the harasser changing his user ID let him circumvent the block, and an eBay rep told him that yes, this is entirely possible and they don't plan to close the loophole. Thankfully, most people don't know about it anyway.
11-21-2019 07:59 PM
11-21-2019 08:10 PM
And had I trusted my instincts and just walked away without leaving him a neg, I wouldn't be $1600 poorer, 10 pounds heavier, and continually stressed for a whole month over this lunatic. Live and learn, I suppose.
11-21-2019 08:14 PM
11-21-2019 08:14 PM
11-21-2019 08:26 PM - edited 11-21-2019 08:28 PM
No, I did NOT know it was fake since there was no picture of the COA label (not uncommon even for people selling real software).
I found this all out AFTER the fact, when he started his harassment campaign. Do you have anything useful to contribute here, or is it some sort of pleasure to repeatedly take the side of a psychotic maniac?
11-21-2019 08:36 PM
@jacevoid Call eBay one more time and ask for Trust and Safety Department, no other. Call during normal California working hours. Ask the T & S rep to remove all FB from all the "associated" accounts that have come from that person, which is eBay's Policy regarding circumventing a block.
This type of situation is why the current FB system is really a failure in certain instances.
11-21-2019 08:37 PM
I want to add something for the people who are popping off sarcastic comments about fakes and what not. I'm extremely good at spotting fakes. If there is a close, detailed picture in the listing, I will be able to tell just from that photo 95% of the time. Failing that, once I get the item in hand, my detection rate is 100%. I am proud to say that I have never passed a fake along to a customer.
The reason those guys making comments like "I defamed him by leaving feedback about counterfeits" just annoy me so much is because they are often the same kinds of people who email me several times a day whining about how they bought a fake from someone else on eBay, got screwed 6 months later when it was detected, and the seller and all protection was long gone, and then 75% of them have the temerity to demand why THEY should TRUST me and my listings.
I just block these people outright; not worth dealing with their insecurities. You bought a supposedly brand new Windows 10 Pro for $35, chances are it's fake; don't act like it ruined your life.
11-21-2019 08:41 PM - edited 11-21-2019 08:42 PM
Mr_lincoln,
Yes, I have talked to trust & safety multiple times over this issue. They didn't do anything about anything. Note that feedback was NEVER left on these orders. I got my cease & desist letter to him BEFORE the 7 day waiting period expired, and it scared him enough that he never left feedback. However, he went ahead with all the returns, figuring no one would engage an attorney for that, (a correct and astute assumption on his part) and I did get T&S to immediately remove all the defects.
Oddly enough, they admitted the accounts were obviously bogus but did nothing whatsoever about shutting them down. Except for the first new account that was suspended immediately, each of the other five fake accounts, and his original seller account, are all perfectly active at the moment.
11-21-2019 09:21 PM
11-21-2019 09:45 PM - edited 11-21-2019 09:48 PM
You never mentioned you received the item and said you immediately cancelled after paying. Now you say there was no picture. Without a picture and no item how did you determine you bought a fake ? Also since you where buying for resell from one of your competitors how much less was the item to make it worth buying and reselling ?
11-21-2019 09:46 PM
The FB wasn't personal, it was just to warn the community.
Feedback doesn't do that.
Feedback has no effect on a seller's account. EBay doesn't use it as a measurement.
The seller usually doesn't care. (You hit an outlier.)
And other sellers almost never see the feedback of buyers.
More than 85% of transactions are Fixed Price. The seller meets the buyer when he buys.
In the dying Auction sector, most listings have Buy It Now prices. The seller meets the BIN buyer when he buys.
And the few remaining Auctions sell to a last nanosecond sniper. The seller meets the buyer when he buys.
Which leaves the nibble bidding newbie and the single bidder who bid early and had no competition. Those few the seller can investigate.
The negative feedbacks are read by the seller's future customers. Who then backbutton away from the angry guy who leaves nastygrams for his customers.
Personally, I think feedback should be dropped in favour of a record of successful transactions (999 out of 1000, 35 out of 100, 10000 out of 10000) . Perhaps with "unsuccessful" based on the number of Disputes opened -- however resolved and whether the buyer or the seller opened them.