This is one for the record books, guys. Maniac created/used 6 accounts to retaliate for negative FB

[jacevoid]

I want to start out by saying that the ONLY reason I am posting this is as a WARNING to anyone who thinks eBay will protect their account in any way from retaliatory activity, and to TAKE PEOPLES' ADVICE ON HERE AND USE A SECOND ACCOUNT FOR BUYING!!! Here is my almost month long ordeal of dealing with a real, live psychopath on eBay.

Sorry in advance for how long this is, because of all the twists and turns and how long it's been going on:

Anyway, here goes. October 29th, purchased a listing for some Microsoft software I planned to resell on eBay. A few minutes later, my order was canceled. Sent email asking why my order was canceled, and promptly received brusque reply: "I don't sell to resellers". OK, based on my experienced, that is 99% proof he is selling counterfeits.  I replied back to that effect and did not hear anything back.

Against my better judgment, later that afternoon, I left negative feedback to the effect of "seller canceled order with bogus excuse, probably selling fakes, F-".

A couple hours later that same evening, received a order of one my cheapest store items (older version of Adobe Photoshop Elements for 19.99 with free shipping). Let's say your ship to name on your buying side of eBay was your business name, like Acme Inc, instead of using your personal name. Well, this brand new buyer's ID was basically "AcmeIncsuucks" (looks like he threw a couple extra U's in there to avoid profanity filters). The only way for him to have gotten that "Acme Inc" name was to have sold something to me, namely that order he canceled earlier under his main seller account ID.

So anyway, I knew what was going on now (obviously). I waited, and then shortly afterwards, he requested a cancellation, which I granted. I think what he was planning was to order an item, request and get cancellation, and then leave negative feedback. Apparently he was unaware that this is not allowed when the buyer initiates the cancel request, but he learned quickly, as he never tried it again.

That ID was suspended at some point, I believe by eBay's automated systems (not by a real person).

Over the next week, using his REAL first name every time and a variety of made up last names, he proceeded to order more Elements software and have them ALL shipped to the same address, which was the address on that "AcmeIncsuucks" ID as well, btw. He wasn't even trying to hide, truth be told. He was just trying to avoid auto suspensions from eBay's system. For example, let's say his name was Fred. Well, one of his buying ID's used the name "Fred Frederick". He works at a subsidiary of a very well known, large HMO in Minnesota. Several of his ID's used last names made up from his company's name, like "Fred Humana", for example. The phone numbers were all just stolen out of the yellow pages, some of them from local business a couple miles from where I live. He also even used personal info like my LLC name in one of his buyer ID's.

On top of that, two of those ID's had positive feedbacks left buy the same seller that stated "won and never paid". The other three ID's had penny auction positive feedback from the SAME SELLER in NY, some jewelry dealer. Like I said, he wasn't even really trying to hide what he was doing.

At this point, I pretty much knew what was going to happen and I was talking to eBay constantly in a state of panic. All the reps said don't worry, we know what's going on, we agree this is not right, we'll take care of it. Needless to say, after "AcmeIncsuucks" was suspended, NO other action was taken on his made up accounts.

I want to point out that not all of these accounts were brand new ones. I believe two of them were literally 5 years old, like he kept them in storage in case he needed to wreak havoc with anyone.

So then the return requests started. All of them claiming the item was counterfeit, all written in the same manner (as if by the same person, obviously). Five in total. I was talking to eBay supervisors and reps several times a day. All said we're taking care of it, we're filing reports with Trust & Safety backend, etc etc. At one point, a supervisor actually got TWO of his buying ID's suspended, ONLY TO HAVE THOSE ID'S GET COMPLETELY REINSTATED A FEW HOURS LATER.

Also, around this time, HE GOT THE FEEDBACK I INITIALLY LEFT REMOVED, and I got a WARNING for feedback extortion (!!!). All the people I spoke to at eBay could not tell me why it happened except to say it should not have happened and the feedback I left was totally fine and compliant with eBay rules.

Around now, I got three escalations on three of those returns, all of which were naturally approved minutes later. He never even had to send these ones back, just got a full refund to his fake accounts and kept the items.

The chilling thing about these returns was the cordial, almost conversational tone in the buyer messages. Like you were talking to someone at the coffee stand you buy coffee from every morning. The returns even used phrases like "good evening". It distinctly reminded me of a movie where the bad guy is very polite and cordial until he slits someone's throat because of some minor thing they did to displease him.

I had it at this point. I hired an attorney and had a cease & desist letter created and mailed to his work address (where he was having the fake buyer ID's registered), and his actual home address, which wasn't hard to find. I also consulted a harassment attorney in case more action was needed. Total cost for this: $1600.

I did this to prevent negative feedbacks from being left, and it worked. He didn't do any of that and didn't create more ID's, but he did persist on the returns and got one more escalated (I did not approve that one because one supervisor said that particular return wouldn't be covered anyway under buyer protection, but it was bad info).

So yep at this point, NO ACTION  has been taken against any of these ID's, they are all still active and very obviously the same person (even a two year old could figure this out). My warning to you all: EBAY DOESN'T GIVE A FLYING YOU KNOW WHAT. 3k in fees every month and they just let this psychopath do whatever he wants while they lie to you on the phone and promise to take action and take care of it. About the only think eBay actually did was remove the defects for the escalated cases.

So yep I've talked to what seems like every single person at eBay, I have escalated to a dozen different "backend" departments, I have reached out to eBay's social media team (of course, they promised an investigation etc etc). Not a single thing has been done so far, all his ID's are perfectly fine as far as I can see. Ironically, if you google the ID that started all this, the one I bought from, the only result that comes up is a blog post warning people not to buy from him because he sells fake USB flash drives.

[reallynicestamps]

I replied back to that effect and did not hear anything back..... later that afternoon, I left negative feedback to the effect of "seller canceled order with bogus excuse, probably selling fakes, F-".

Well.

You are right that the seller over-reacted.

But.

[jacevoid]

Don't get the wrong message. I KNEW I should have left sleeping dogs lie. The FB wasn't personal, it was just to warn the community.

Btw, to make this worse, this guy doesn't make his living on eBay. He's mid to upper mid level management at a healthcare company. The level of cold, calculated effort that went into his campaign, and his behavior, shows he is a true psychopath by clinical standards (of course, management positions tend to select for sociopaths anyway).

He's married, got a nice house in a upscale part of Minneapolis, etc. And all this over a slight that he basically got removed anyway.

I'm fairly certain I'm not allowed to post any of the ID's he used or anything like that. Criminals have a right to privacy and all that. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. People should know about lunatics like this guy.

These people are out there and eBay won't protect you. Protect yourself by using a 2nd ID to do your buying. That's the moral of the story.

[rfmtm]

Yes, separate buying and selling, even posting, ID's are a must on ebay, and best elsewhere as well.  Also a must to use your blocked bidder list.

Really surprised, well maybe not, that ebay did nothing.  Sometimes it just depends on who you manage to talk to.

[jacevoid]

Yep, learned a expensive and VERY stressful lesson.

The blocked bidder list is a favorite of mine. Of course, it does nothing if the individual creates additional accounts, or here's a screwed up little bit of info, if he CHANGES his user ID, that COMPLETELY circumvents your initial block!

[rfmtm]

Yes, but once on the blocked list, ebay rules are clear that creating additional accounts to circumvent the block is not allowed.  Since ebay can see related accounts by various means, if you hammer on them, they do generally take care of it.

The keyword, is "hammer" on them.  Most have found you just have to keep calling until you get someone that understands the issue, knows how to fix it, and wants to help you.  Often it's best to insist they do it while still on the phone with you.  Seems calling early morning weekdays to get a USA rep makes a big difference as well.

[jacevoid]

Yes, I had one rep that DID get two accounts suspended shortly after our conversation, only to see those accounts come back up a few hours later. A separate rep said those suspended accounts did whatever eBay wanted to get restored.

Also, it's been my experience that while the eBay rules state creating additional accounts to circumvent blocks is not allowed, in practice, eBay does nothing about it.

You believe I should keep calling in and demanding action, despite the fact that the "worst" is technically over?

[rfmtm]

Well I only see the one neg on your account now, and looks like it will fall off soon, so probably time to move on unless there are others on another account or that I don't see. 

[wastingtime101]

This is the craziest thing I've read in a while. Ways to do things different:

• Use different accounts for buying and selling, especially if you're buying product to re-sell.
• Don't leave a pretty pointless neg with an unfounded "probably selling fakes" accusation when you never had the product in hand.
• If you run into a problem with another member, add them to your blocked list immediately.
• If they circumvent your blocked list with new IDs, do not ship to them. Cancel "problem with address" and report them to eBay.
• Customer service phone reps are wrong a lot. If one of them tells you to not respond to a return request don't automatically take them at their word.
• I'm not even going to address spending $1600 on an attorney over this...

[nocoolnamejane]

Again, not to say the user didn’t overreact, but also all that doxxing you’ve done on them AND then postings some of your findings on this public board is a huge yikes.

[jacevoid]

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@wastingtime101 wrote:

This is the craziest thing I've read in a while. Ways to do things different:

• Use different accounts for buying and selling, especially if you're buying product to re-sell.

• Don't leave a pretty pointless neg with an unfounded "probably selling fakes" accusation when you never had the product in hand.
• If you run into a problem with another member, add them to your blocked list immediately.
• If they circumvent your blocked list with new IDs, do not ship to them. Cancel "problem with address" and report them to eBay.
• Customer service phone reps are wrong a lot. If one of them tells you to not respond to a return request don't automatically take them at their word.
• I'm not even going to address spending $1600 on an attorney over this...

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I agree with your advice and will be implementing what I already don't do. I do want to thank you about the cancellation advice. I didn't know that it was possible in these situations; you learn something new every day.

About spending 1600 on attorneys, it was truly necessary once it got to this point. eBay was literally doing nothing, and this guy was just getting started. This is my livelihood. Imagine a minimum of six negatives on my account, all from different accounts. That's enough to tank sales for weeks while it gets sorted out.

I never got any negs in the first place solely because the attorney got the letter delivered before the 7 day neg waiting period was over. It would have been quite different had I not gotten the cease and desist. This person is obviously fairly deranged.

[jacevoid]

"Again, not to say the user didn’t overreact, but also all that doxxing you’ve done on them AND then postings some of your findings on this public board is a huge yikes."

How did I "doxx" them??? I didn't even post their user IDs, much less any other personally identifiable information.

Did I doxx them by involving an attorney to protect myself from THEM, while they were busy destroying my seller account?

You're worried about this psychopath's hurt feelings? Would you want to work in the cubicle next to this individual?

[coolections]

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@jacevoid wrote:

"Again, not to say the user didn’t overreact, but also all that doxxing you’ve done on them AND then postings some of your findings on this public board is a huge yikes."

How did I "doxx" them???

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Maybe by attempting to defame them and ruining their account by telling all their potential buyers they sell counterfeit/fakes ?

[papermoneyforme]

I think this needs to be investigated properly if the facts are as stated as if so, is absolutely absurd.

tyler@ebay 

brian.t@ebay 

[jacevoid]

"Maybe by attempting to defame them and ruining their account by telling all their potential buyers they sell counterfeit/fakes ?"

I'm curious what purpose these sort of spurious replies serve? There is verifiable evidence that this thug was selling fakes, including reports from other individuals, and a complete lack of legitimate ways for him to acquire the quantities of these products he was selling, at the prices he was posting them at. Shame on you.