This is absurd! How is a Bluegrass record 'HATEFUL & DISCRIMINATORY' ???

[arisdisc]

I've been selling vinyl records in here for 20 years. I'm not going to comment on the person who felt it was warranted to 'report' my listing, but more so on the EBAY EMPLOYEE who looked at it and felt that this item should be removed.
Can't they use common sense ?? It's a RECORD!

The title of the listing : "COUNTRY GENTLEMEN - 'Johnny Reb/Buffalo Girls' 1968 Unplayed Country 45 on Rebel"

Rebel is a world-renowned music company that has specialized in bluegrass music for over 70 years. 

I guess it's no surprise that the link on the 'message from Ebay' about this regarding "questions? contact us" takes me to a page about hazardous materials not allowed through the mail...and absolutely nothing else.

Oh, and where's my 15 cent credit for this auction listing since it's removal was baseless and unwarranted?

[ted_200]

You mean like this one?

That's a tough one.  Artists' names and Titles for pieces of work are given considerably more latitude than other items.  For example, Album titles with the eff-word are permitted, where that won't fly otherwise except maybe the Adults Only category.  However the artwork with the arm band is generally a no-go.

With the Third Reich policy, it's enough that it simply "glorify" the Third Reich (so Third Reich military medals are banned entirely, regardless of any symbols that may or may not be present).  But unless it's excepted (official authentic period coins and stamps being the only one I'm aware of) anything bearing a swastika is not to be listed here (including at times Navajo rugs made decades earlier!). 

The same logic was applied with the stars and bars ban.  Basically the image itself is deemed as "glorifying" and therefore banned. 

Policy enforcement is wildly variable.  If no one reports it, and no bot "sees" it, it stays up.  If someone reports it, it may or may not actually violate policy, and it may or may not be deemed to violate policy and be taken down, irrespective of the first condition being met.  With any listing involving swastikas, Confederate flags, or the KKK, it's an almost sure thing they'll pull it - as we see in this example.

I cannot stress enough that relisting any item that has already been pulled is a really bad idea, no matter what.  The track record of that ending badly is long and well documented on the Board, even if it's actually compliant, even if someone at eBay CS said it was OK.

Since there are a 'lot' of other sellers currently selling items on this same record label, a 'notice' from Ebay that it needed to be changed would seem like a better option. I would have done it right away.

Yes, but unfortunately that's not how they do things.  I have never understood why.

I also have to think that adding the 'Confederate Flag' to the list of banned items was done in the last year, or maybe even in the last few months. Maybe when changes like that are made, sellers should be informed.

It was within the last couple of years at least... whenever the uproar happened.  They're awful with keeping sellers informed of policy changes, they'll just change it and not tell anyone.  I guess you're supposed to know to read the entire thing every few weeks, just to be sure.  It was about the same time as the Washington Redskins controversy... another site I use banned anything with the football team image or name at the same time they banned the Confederate flag!

Sellers can always use the image mosaic function. Really easy to get eBay conform.

I wouldn't do that.  I know people have tried to sell medals with the symbols obscured that way, and they got violations anyhow. 

I'll tell you a funny story...  I listed a silver medal that had a nude woman on it once.  Nothing explicit, but a nude depection of a contemporary famous woman, no different than dozens of world coins and medals sold here every single day.  They pulled it, said it was "Adult".  OK, so I pixelated it (much less alteration area than the record image), they pulled it again saying the same thing, plus the alteration was not allowed because the altered image prevented the buyer from seeing what he was buying. 

[moondogblues]

I feel for the OP. I dislike seeing Nazi symbols, but the ban on the Indian swastikas is silly because they are reversed, or so I have read. But history is history, and while a lot of it is not pretty, it happened and covering it up by banning items is whitewashing IMHO. The Civil War happened. The Confederate Flag existed. Yes there are those who use it to exalt values most of us dislike....as long as they don't hurt anyone...

Anyway...I'm a musician and one of my favorite songs is the Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, by Robbie Robertson. I sing it all the time. It's a very beautiful haunting song, and yes they lost the war. But should we ban everything connected to the losing side of war. How about Vietnam? We didn't exactly lose...but we for sure didn't win. Korea either.

And before you all jump on me for not being a patriot, both my parents fought in WW2, my ex-husband was shot in Vietnam and spent 6 months in a hospital in Japan, and my current husband was a crypto specialist in Korea. He lived with the Koreans and drove a duece and a half all over the country.

[dilo-8873]

Agree so over the top! I’m a born and bred New Yorker and I love country music. many people that live in the south buy and sell on EBay! Today is 9/11, a time when the country came together. Some of the most beautiful songs commemorating this horrible event were from country singers. History is history and can’t be changed, it happened and should not be pushed aside or under the rug.

[hillbillymedia]

This is absurd! How is a Bluegrass record 'HATEFUL & DISCRIMINATORY' ???  

Obviously it`s not hateful but they can`t erase history when there is so many of these pesky reminders floating around can they? Some people have nothing better to do than search for things to get "offended" by. SMH. Ebay rules are the rules though and we all must abide by them if we want to use the site.

[dilo-8873]

Yes hillbilly, you are correct the rules are the rules. Aside from that I would like to share with you that, as mentioned before, I’m a New Yorker and many New Yorkers are driving around with confederate flags on their cars in protest I guess of the disregard of our nation’s history! Nothing of course to do with ebays rules, just thought I’d share that with you.

dilo

[tellmemama]

Responding to no one in particular.

The point of banning these items are not the items themselves.  It's the meaning behind them.  They may have historic significance but still connotate some form of hate.  Notice the white supremecists always tend to two particular flags.  If there wasn't a strong message attached to them, they could just as easily march with a My Little Pony flag.

That said, banning this record for the logo artwork is stupid.  Ebay brand stupid.

[watchingbands]

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@luckythewinner wrote:

How is a Bluegrass record 'HATEFUL & DISCRIMINATORY' ???

It is not hateful or discriminatory. But it violates eBay policy because it displays the confederate battle flag. 

Not allowed

• Confederate battle flag and related items with its image

One of the great things about our country is our  freedom. And that freedom includes the freedom to choose what other people can do while they are on our property. eBay has used this freedom to decide that sellers cannot sell anything on their site that displays the confederate battle flag. 

I suspect that a similar eBay policy also covers posts to this messageboard, so if I were you I would not be shocked by another policy violation. 

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They should just start putting the communist flag on everything instead. Ebay is perfectly ok with that.

[watchingbands]

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@tellmemama wrote:

Responding to no one in particular.

The point of banning these items are not the items themselves.  It's the meaning behind them.  They may have historic significance but still connotate some form of hate.  Notice the white supremecists always tend to two particular flags.  If there wasn't a strong message attached to them, they could just as easily march with a My Little Pony flag.

That said, banning this record for the logo artwork is stupid.  Ebay brand stupid.

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" the point of banning". should have been followed by " to police thought". That is the only point of banning. EVERYTHING can connotate some form of hate for SOMEONE. Notice how anarchists and rioters and other such mancolntents always rally around certain flags? Notice how no one cares?

Pepe the frog got roped in and is now a symbol for hate. ANyone can take any symbol as their symbol, and just have it labeled hateful? The sign for peace, got used by the Nazi's, even tho it was around for 12,000 years, but now it's hateful?

[mr_lincoln]

@arisdisc  The Confedorate Flag is part of American History ... as is the first American Flag (in 1775 it was known as the Grand Union Flag) which represented Americans rebeling against English rule ... so "technically" the American Flag should be banned as well. 

Perhaps for the Rebel record a "censored image" may have worked since the bots catching this stuff are obviously doing image recognition ...

[mr_lincoln]

@dilo-8873

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@dilo-8873 wrote:

Yes hillbilly, you are correct the rules are the rules. Aside from that I would like to share with you that, as mentioned before, I’m a New Yorker and many New Yorkers are driving around with confederate flags on their cars in protest I guess of the disregard of our nation’s history! Nothing of course to do with ebays rules, just thought I’d share that with you.

dilo

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Good post and good point ... we can't just "erase" our country's history ... we can certainly learn from it but at the end of the day the eBay Sandbox is ruled by eBay so their rules apply.

[hillbillymedia]

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@dilo-8873 wrote:

Yes hillbilly, you are correct the rules are the rules. Aside from that I would like to share with you that, as mentioned before, I’m a New Yorker and many New Yorkers are driving around with confederate flags on their cars in protest I guess of the disregard of our nation’s history! Nothing of course to do with ebays rules, just thought I’d share that with you.

dilo

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I was born and raised in upstate New York. I left there to live here in TN about 25 years ago. Many families here, black and white, have history of lost family members in the civil war. I`ve met a lot of very good people here. Those boys and men, black and white, fought side by side and died side by side. Many people fly the confederate flag here to honor those that died in that war, some do it in protest and yes, unfortunatly, some do it to be hateful. Ignorance breeds hate. Banning these things also breeds hate and continues to fuel a fire.

[lewisburggold]

Wow thats about all we can say is wow.  Best regards

[watchingbands]

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@hillbillymedia wrote:

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@dilo-8873 wrote:

Yes hillbilly, you are correct the rules are the rules. Aside from that I would like to share with you that, as mentioned before, I’m a New Yorker and many New Yorkers are driving around with confederate flags on their cars in protest I guess of the disregard of our nation’s history! Nothing of course to do with ebays rules, just thought I’d share that with you.

dilo

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I was born and raised in upstate New York. I left there to live here in TN about 25 years ago. Many families here, black and white, have history of lost family members in the civil war. I`ve met a lot of very good people here. Those boys and men, black and white, fought side by side and died side by side. Many people fly the confederate flag here to honor those that died in that war, some do it in protest and yes, unfortunatly, some do it to be hateful. Ignorance breeds hate. Banning these things also breeds hate and continues to fuel a fire.

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It's amazing that people are more concerned with something that happened many generations ago, and ignore things that are associated with things that happened to people still alive TODAY.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1311.R1.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xcheg.TRS0&...

30,000 listings with the face of a mass murderer.  Is that not hateful? Is that really not MORE hateful than the picture of a flag from 150 years ago?  Imagine walking down the street, and seeing some kid proudly rocking the face of the guy that executed your wife.

[mr_lincoln]

@hillbillymedia

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@hillbillymedia wrote:

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@dilo-8873 wrote:

Yes hillbilly, you are correct the rules are the rules. Aside from that I would like to share with you that, as mentioned before, I’m a New Yorker and many New Yorkers are driving around with confederate flags on their cars in protest I guess of the disregard of our nation’s history! Nothing of course to do with ebays rules, just thought I’d share that with you.

dilo

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I was born and raised in upstate New York. I left there to live here in TN about 25 years ago. Many families here, black and white, have history of lost family members in the civil war. I`ve met a lot of very good people here. Those boys and men, black and white, fought side by side and died side by side. Many people fly the confederate flag here to honor those that died in that war, some do it in protest and yes, unfortunatly, some do it to be hateful. Ignorance breeds hate. Banning these things also breeds hate and continues to fuel a fire.

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Well said ... worthy of a repeat ...

[poppyswag]

Saying something is American History is not a reason to celebrate it. The Civil War was an illegal war, and we all know what it was about at the core. Spare me the War of Northern Aggression  hogwash.

Here in New Orleans, we want the statues, aka Confederate Participation Trophies - DOWN. Most of them were put up in the early 1900s, years after the war, when there was a huge push for separate but equal, aka Jim Crow, one of the most shameful periods of "American History". We don't want any of our children thinking that is what should be celebrated now.

Also, living in New York and liking country music has nothing to do with what ebay is doing. That logic is all over the place, just like so much of this thread.

I agree with Joe, it's stupid to ban a vintage record with the Rebel label but after reading this thread I can see why they do it.