eBay

bmp_auto_salvage · ‎04-03-2019

A buyer recently opened a SNAD return for item "Wrong Item Sent."

The FIRST SENTENCE from the buyer in the message was "TECHNICALLY THIS WAS THE RIGHT ITEM SENT BUT DID NOT FIT."

Phoned eBay to report this and THEY SAY THEY CANNOT REMOVE THE DEFECT FROM MY SERVICE METRICS!

Even though the buyer CLEARLY ADMITTED IT!

How is this right? How is this LEGAL!?

Now I am at a 3.5% Return rate which is deemed as "VERY HIGH"

Now they are going to collect another 4% from me! Unbelievable!

I'd say about 85-90% of my "Returns" are from buyer error and the buyer selecting whichever reason they please!

eBay has MONOPOLIZED off buyers selecting whatever reason they please to open a return!

Even called in and WHEN A RETURN IS CLOSED IN YOUR FAVOR IT DOES NOT LEAVE THE SERVICE METRIC PERCENTAGE!

This is outright THEFT!

hioctane62 · ‎04-03-2019

Below is the reply I received when I brought the issue up in the weekly chat.

trinton@ebay
Re: Community Chat, April 3 @ 1:00 pm PT - General Topics
in reply to hioctane62 04-03-2019 02:12:05 PM
@hioctane62 wrote:
trinton@ebay wrote:
@vrykalak wrote:
When I buy an item, and it has not yet arrived, there's a big blue button that asks me to LEAVE FEEDBACK. (Why would I leave feedback for an item I have not yet received?)
As soon as the item is delivered, the big blue button changes to RETURN THIS ITEM, and I have to search the dropdown to leave feedback.
Why does eBay urge buyers to return items, rather than be happy and leave FB?

trinton's response to vryklak:

Hi @vrykalak, having the leave feedback option prominently displayed helps remind buyers to leave feedback when their item arrives. Once the item arrives, we change this to the return request option in case buyers need to resolve any concerns. Having this option showcased in the purchase history does not increase the number of situations where a return may be warranted, it simply streamlines the buyer experience in situations where something has gone wrong. This is a very common practice within ecommerce, and I'm sure you can understand that we wouldn't want the process to return an item (as the buyer is already having a poor experience at the time they wish to return their purchase).

We've received feedback from on this process and while we understand that a return request is a stressful situation for sellers, you also have to put yourself in your buyers shoes and understand how it isn't ideal for them, either. Sometimes changes are made to benefit your customers, as creating a better, more streamlined experience will ultimately encourage buyers to return to the site and generate more revenue for our sellers.

My response to trinton:

It would be much better if the "leave feedback" button remained until such time that the buyer actually does leave feedback. A return button could be displayed below that. As it stands now, the ONLY thing buyers is presented with is "return this item", and they have to hunt if they want to do ANYTHING else.

THEN, ebay uses those returns to force a seller to pay 4% higher FVF's. There is a HUGE conflict of interest there. Sellers have no appeal process, and even cases resolved in the sellers favor are counted against them in this metric.

There was a thread started on the selling board earlier today where the buyer admitted the seller sent the RIGHT item, but their claim of "seller sent wrong item" still pushed the seller into the extra 4%. Does ebay realize that they are driving their sellers out of business, which decreases the variety of items available to buyers on ebay?

Here is a link to the thread I mentioned:

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/This-has-to-be-illegal/m-p/29677789#M1398344

trinton's response to me:

Hi @hioctane62, often times if a buyer has a concern with their purchase, they will hold back on leaving feedback until a resolution is reached. In most instances, things go off without a hitch and feedback is left early on. When this isn't the case, we want to ensure the buyer can easily begin the process of resolving their concerns.
As I've mentioned in other responses within this thread, the option to return the item being visible is not the reason buyer's return items. I'm sure you can agree that when a there is an issue with an item, the steps to resolve it should not be difficult to find. In addition to this being the industry standard, think of where Customer Service desks are located in brick & mortar stores - returns are either handled at the register by a cashier, or the Customer Service desk that is almost always located in the front of the store.

It's as though I only typed 1 paragraph. The silence on THIS issue says way more than anything trinton typed in his response.

hioctane62 · ‎04-03-2019

Oh... and the reason it's in reply to another question/answer, and not posted front and center as it's own question, is that I thought the OP was coming to the chat to pose the question for themselves.

bmp_auto_salvage · ‎04-03-2019

WOW!

He completely overlooked that issue!

Unbelievable!

They know what they are doing! And they remain silent!

Sickening!

spittser · ‎04-03-2019

WOW! Just WOW! What a bleeping trainwreck this site has become.

bmp_auto_salvage · ‎04-03-2019

Sorry, I was going to but had a local contact me for a transmission that I had to personally deliver. Either way the outcome was EXACTLY as I expected, tip toe around the question and read from the poorly written script.

zamo-zuan · ‎04-03-2019

@bmp_auto_salvage wrote:
Sorry to hear, I would love to know who these sellers in the "low" are.

Its beyond aggravating when you know exactly what it is you are selling and the blame is placed upon you.

Honestly, we work with many companies, I have not found ANY others in our category that are below "High".

We went down to "Average" for only one month since the seller metrics were implemented. We've never hit "very high".

I was told that "Only the bottom 5% of metrics receive a penalty". I am 100% sure this is not the case.

At the very best case scenario from the data I've seen, they aren't properly separating categories, and "Motors" is being compared to EVERY SINGLE OTHER MOTORS SELLER, rather than product type.

Think about Ignition Coils. Manufacturers brag about 2% defect rate. 2% is a strong, competitive rate. Many vehicles require 8 or more coils. With 8 coils, each at a 2% defect rate... or even a 1% defect rate... how the heck is the "Peer Average" 0.72%?

It's impossible.

vrykalak · ‎04-03-2019

@hioctane62 wrote:
Below is the reply I received when I brought the issue up in the weekly chat.

trinton@ebay
Re: Community Chat, April 3 @ 1:00 pm PT - General Topics
in reply to hioctane62 04-03-2019 02:12:05 PM
@hioctane62wrote:
trinton@ebay wrote:
@vrykalakwrote:
When I buy an item, and it has not yet arrived, there's a big blue button that asks me to LEAVE FEEDBACK. (Why would I leave feedback for an item I have not yet received?)
As soon as the item is delivered, the big blue button changes to RETURN THIS ITEM, and I have to search the dropdown to leave feedback.
Why does eBay urge buyers to return items, rather than be happy and leave FB?

trinton's response to vryklak:

Hi @vrykalak, having the leave feedback option prominently displayed helps remind buyers to leave feedback when their item arrives. Once the item arrives, we change this to the return request option in case buyers need to resolve any concerns. Having this option showcased in the purchase history does not increase the number of situations where a return may be warranted, it simply streamlines the buyer experience in situations where something has gone wrong. This is a very common practice within ecommerce, and I'm sure you can understand that we wouldn't want the process to return an item (as the buyer is already having a poor experience at the time they wish to return their purchase).
We've received feedback from on this process and while we understand that a return request is a stressful situation for sellers, you also have to put yourself in your buyers shoes and understand how it isn't ideal for them, either. Sometimes changes are made to benefit your customers, as creating a better, more streamlined experience will ultimately encourage buyers to return to the site and generate more revenue for our sellers.

My response to trinton:

It would be much better if the "leave feedback" button remained until such time that the buyer actually does leave feedback. A return button could be displayed below that. As it stands now, the ONLY thing buyers is presented with is "return this item", and they have to hunt if they want to do ANYTHING else.
THEN, ebay uses those returns to force a seller to pay 4% higher FVF's. There is a HUGE conflict of interest there. Sellers have no appeal process, and even cases resolved in the sellers favor are counted against them in this metric.
There was a thread started on the selling board earlier today where the buyer admitted the seller sent the RIGHT item, but their claim of "seller sent wrong item" still pushed the seller into the extra 4%. Does ebay realize that they are driving their sellers out of business, which decreases the variety of items available to buyers on ebay?
Here is a link to the thread I mentioned:
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/This-has-to-be-illegal/m-p/29677789#M1398344

trinton's response to me:

Hi @hioctane62, often times if a buyer has a concern with their purchase, they will hold back on leaving feedback until a resolution is reached. In most instances, things go off without a hitch and feedback is left early on. When this isn't the case, we want to ensure the buyer can easily begin the process of resolving their concerns.
As I've mentioned in other responses within this thread, the option to return the item being visible is not the reason buyer's return items. I'm sure you can agree that when a there is an issue with an item, the steps to resolve it should not be difficult to find. In addition to this being the industry standard, think of where Customer Service desks are located in brick & mortar stores - returns are either handled at the register by a cashier, or the Customer Service desk that is almost always located in the front of the store.

It's as though I only typed 1 paragraph. The silence on THIS issue says way more than anything trinton typed in his response.

This response is one of many that makes me wish we still had the opportunity to flag a message as UNhelpful.

Trinton says most sales go off without a hitch, and feedback is left. So why does eBay make it hard to find the Feedback button, if it is most often what the buyer wants.
He says that, if there is a concern, it should be easy to find the way to lodge a complaint. Well, just put the button for "I have a concern" (NOT "Return this item") right below the LEAVE FEEDBACK button. It's plenty obvious there.
Finally, he says the service desk is usually at the front of a brick-n-mortar store, to make it easier to do returns. My reply to that:
- the service desk is there for service questions, which include a whole lot more than just processing returns, and
- the comment is irrelevant because, while customer receipts and statements often include an invitation for feedback, they never say RETURN THIS ITEM in big letters beside every item...or anywhere on the receipt.

bmp_auto_salvage · ‎04-03-2019

Agreed, like I said, eBay knows exactly what they are doing. I've even had staff admit that eBay Motors and Electronics are among the highest returned categories. How is 3.5% VERY HIGH!? That is beyond impressive for used auto parts. I wish I could have a list of the sellers that I am pooled with and we can verify these percentages.......

custome36 · ‎04-03-2019

Well for those that havent been impacted yet, it's a 40% ebay fee increase, not 4%.. There seems to be a lot of deceptive talk about what it is and NAD returnss.. Apparently they decided to throw in other returns in there (not just Items Not Described) returns, to catch more sellers, with the 40% FVF increase.

equid0x · ‎04-03-2019

@zamo-zuan wrote:
@bmp_auto_salvage wrote:
Sorry to hear, I would love to know who these sellers in the "low" are.

Its beyond aggravating when you know exactly what it is you are selling and the blame is placed upon you.

Honestly, we work with many companies, I have not found ANY others in our category that are below "High".

We went down to "Average" for only one month since the seller metrics were implemented. We've never hit "very high".

I was told that "Only the bottom 5% of metrics receive a penalty". I am 100% sure this is not the case.

At the very best case scenario from the data I've seen, they aren't properly separating categories, and "Motors" is being compared to EVERY SINGLE OTHER MOTORS SELLER, rather than product type.

Think about Ignition Coils. Manufacturers brag about 2% defect rate. 2% is a strong, competitive rate. Many vehicles require 8 or more coils. With 8 coils, each at a 2% defect rate... or even a 1% defect rate... how the heck is the "Peer Average" 0.72%?

It's impossible.

Imagine this... when I worked in computers the average failure rate on new stock parts was around 10% right out of the box. Typically, these type of failures didn't happen right away but usually within the first several weeks but sometimes even months later. Normally, if it made it past a year it was good through the warranty period (3 or 5 years) before eventually failing due to old age.

equid0x · ‎04-03-2019

@vrykalak wrote:
@hioctane62 wrote:
Below is the reply I received when I brought the issue up in the weekly chat.

trinton@ebay
Re: Community Chat, April 3 @ 1:00 pm PT - General Topics
in reply to hioctane62 04-03-2019 02:12:05 PM
@hioctane62wrote:
trinton@ebay wrote:
@vrykalakwrote:
When I buy an item, and it has not yet arrived, there's a big blue button that asks me to LEAVE FEEDBACK. (Why would I leave feedback for an item I have not yet received?)
As soon as the item is delivered, the big blue button changes to RETURN THIS ITEM, and I have to search the dropdown to leave feedback.
Why does eBay urge buyers to return items, rather than be happy and leave FB?

trinton's response to vryklak:

Hi @vrykalak, having the leave feedback option prominently displayed helps remind buyers to leave feedback when their item arrives. Once the item arrives, we change this to the return request option in case buyers need to resolve any concerns. Having this option showcased in the purchase history does not increase the number of situations where a return may be warranted, it simply streamlines the buyer experience in situations where something has gone wrong. This is a very common practice within ecommerce, and I'm sure you can understand that we wouldn't want the process to return an item (as the buyer is already having a poor experience at the time they wish to return their purchase).
We've received feedback from on this process and while we understand that a return request is a stressful situation for sellers, you also have to put yourself in your buyers shoes and understand how it isn't ideal for them, either. Sometimes changes are made to benefit your customers, as creating a better, more streamlined experience will ultimately encourage buyers to return to the site and generate more revenue for our sellers.

My response to trinton:

It would be much better if the "leave feedback" button remained until such time that the buyer actually does leave feedback. A return button could be displayed below that. As it stands now, the ONLY thing buyers is presented with is "return this item", and they have to hunt if they want to do ANYTHING else.
THEN, ebay uses those returns to force a seller to pay 4% higher FVF's. There is a HUGE conflict of interest there. Sellers have no appeal process, and even cases resolved in the sellers favor are counted against them in this metric.
There was a thread started on the selling board earlier today where the buyer admitted the seller sent the RIGHT item, but their claim of "seller sent wrong item" still pushed the seller into the extra 4%. Does ebay realize that they are driving their sellers out of business, which decreases the variety of items available to buyers on ebay?
Here is a link to the thread I mentioned:
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/This-has-to-be-illegal/m-p/29677789#M1398344

trinton's response to me:

Hi @hioctane62, often times if a buyer has a concern with their purchase, they will hold back on leaving feedback until a resolution is reached. In most instances, things go off without a hitch and feedback is left early on. When this isn't the case, we want to ensure the buyer can easily begin the process of resolving their concerns.
As I've mentioned in other responses within this thread, the option to return the item being visible is not the reason buyer's return items. I'm sure you can agree that when a there is an issue with an item, the steps to resolve it should not be difficult to find. In addition to this being the industry standard, think of where Customer Service desks are located in brick & mortar stores - returns are either handled at the register by a cashier, or the Customer Service desk that is almost always located in the front of the store.

It's as though I only typed 1 paragraph. The silence on THIS issue says way more than anything trinton typed in his response.
This response is one of many that makes me wish we still had the opportunity to flag a message as UNhelpful.

Trinton says most sales go off without a hitch, and feedback is left. So why does eBay make it hard to find the Feedback button, if it is most often what the buyer wants.
He says that, if there is a concern, it should be easy to find the way to lodge a complaint. Well, just put the button for "I have a concern" (NOT "Return this item") right below the LEAVE FEEDBACK button. It's plenty obvious there.
Finally, he says the service desk is usually at the front of a brick-n-mortar store, to make it easier to do returns. My reply to that:
- the service desk is there for service questions, which include a whole lot more than just processing returns, and
- the comment is irrelevant because, while customer receipts and statements often include an invitation for feedback, they never say RETURN THIS ITEM in big letters beside every item...or anywhere on the receipt.

Hmmm... I think it depends on the industry. Its pretty common practice in IT/electronics to print the return policy right on the receipt.

I don't see the existence of a return button on eBay's site to be an issue. I see the lenience of eBay's return policies to be the issue.

Most B&Ms at least used to check the returned items when they were returned. IE. verify serial numbers, part numbers, that all of the pieces were present, etc. Honestly, I don't remember the last time I actually returned something.

As a store, it used to be, if we got a complete item back, we could RMA the item to the distributor and get credit for the return, so the store wasn't really losing money on the return, either.

Now that everything is Chinesium with questionable QA practices and ridiculously low wholesale costs, there is probably no returning to manufacturer going on - the distributors are probably tossing the failed equipment in the trash.

The manufacturers used to have an interest in getting the legitimate failures back so they could do a failure analysis and improve the product. Somehow, I doubt this typically happens anymore.

equid0x · ‎04-03-2019

@bmp_auto_salvage wrote:
Agreed, like I said, eBay knows exactly what they are doing. I've even had staff admit that eBay Motors and Electronics are among the highest returned categories. How is 3.5% VERY HIGH!? That is beyond impressive for used auto parts. I wish I could have a list of the sellers that I am pooled with and we can verify these percentages.......

I would jump in with you, but my seller metrics dashboard has been broken since deployment with no sign of being fixed any time soon.

hioctane62 · ‎04-03-2019

I have no peers, so I guess I'm safe lol. Of course, I have no sales anymore either so...

dinpavent0 · ‎04-03-2019

I sell auto also, it happens so so often in our category. No matter how much information we put in. I have had buyers message and ask questions to be sure it is what they are looking for and then they get it and they didn't even know what car they own?!! Seriously, it is the most frustrating thing ever. I gave correct information and the buyer clearly admitted, I am sorry I gave you the wrong year of car, I thought I had a 2012 , not a 2009. Really? So I gave you correct part for exactly what you said you owned but I sent wrong part? I think not. Sorry end of my rant...lol