eBay

autopiacarcare · ‎02-18-2019

We have been targeted by a malicious buyer who has purchased 3 times from 3 different guest account IDs.

Order # 1 - Opened damaged/not as described case claiming the cap of the bottle was cracked in shipping and product had leaked out. We processed full refund to close the case.

Order # 2 - Return was filed as "Doesn't match description or photos" with the comment " Nothings came whats going on." - Order was delayed by a day due to weather and was delivered the day after return was opened. We sent buyer multiple messages with tracking updates, but did not get a response. So, we approved the return on the last day possible to avoid getting a defect.

This return had a message on February 15th that said since the buyer had not provided tracking, we could call and have eBay close the case in our favor, which I did. I even received an email from eBay stating the case had been decided in the seller's favor, closed without a refund to the buyer, and that it would not affect our seller performance. However, after the case was closed, the buy provided a tracking number the next day and eBay reversed the decision, refunded the buyer, and is now showing this as an "unresolved" strike on our seller metrics.

Order # 3 - This return request came in just as we were putting two and two together and realizing this buyer was targeting us. Also filed as "not as described" saying he received the wrong brush. Buyer will not respond to messages asking for pictures or more details (I know he's not required to provide pictures). I reported all 3 IDs online and also called Trust and Safety. Trust and Safety advised me not to authorize this return. They said that in 3 days if I do nothing, it will escalate to eBay and they will close in our favor because of the fraudulent buyer activity.

However, when I called today to appeal the mark on our metrics for Order # 2, not only was I told they can't remove that defect because the buyer provided tracking, but I was also told that everything Trust and Safety said was wrong and that I do have to authorize the return for Order # 3. So now eBay is going to charge us $10.84 for a shipping label for a $10.99 product and all they can say is to call when we get it back to appeal that case and "maybe" get the return shipping refunded.

It is incredibly frustrating to get so much bad information when calling CS and that there is apparently no hope for getting actual help when we are being so obviously targeted by fraudulent return requests.

autopiacarcare · ‎05-01-2019

Thanks @mediafirstnj - The lack of help from eBay was definitely very frustrating.

To answer your question, I was never able to get resolution on that one. eBay wouldn't accept the email I had from USPS. The person I was speaking to at USPS was helpful at first and said she would send me an actual letter as requested, but never did. Eventually I just kept getting pushed to voicemail when I would call and hit a dead end.

The post office is 20 minutes across town and of course only open during business hours. That would have meant I would have had to leave the office for a couple hours minimum to try to pursue it further (drive time + waiting in line + however long it would take to get to a manager, etc.) which would have cost the company more in the long run than the order was worth. Since eBay was unwilling to help and the post office was a dead end, it was just chalked up as a loss.

So a brief recap on the loss/win count -

Order # 1 - Loss - we voluntarily refunded the order because we didn't yet know what was really going on. Customer claimed it was damaged, so we just refunded.

Order #2 - Win - eBay initially refunded the buyer, but we appealed the case and eBay gave us our money back.

Order # 3 - Win - eBay initially refunded the buyer, but we appealed the case and eBay gave us our money back.

Order # 4 (different scammer from the first 3) - Loss - eBay refused to accept the email from Post Office stating return package was not addressed to us. Post Office never followed through with sending us an actual letter as eBay required. Deemed not worth pursuing and chalked up as a loss for the business.

Order # 5 (same scammer as Orders 1-3) - Win - Scammer tried to purchase again using a different guest account. Ebay did nothing to protect us, but we caught it and canceled before shipping using "something wrong with the address" as the reason.

I'm calling # 5 a win because we didn't lose the product, however once PayPal starts keeping all of the fees on canceled orders, if that scenario plays out again it will be a loss for us because eBay's refusal to take this issue seriously and actually block that address will cost us more money.

autopiacarcare · ‎05-01-2019

Also just to update on the Service Metrics issue - all of these cases are still showing as counted against us in the Service Metrics. We were told very directly by eBay that this was not considered buyer abuse and seller protections were not warranted.

Luckily we have managed to stay out of the "very high" zone and we have enough volume that they only look at a 3 month period, so they should fall off in another month or so. I can't imagine how detrimental it would be to a smaller volume seller who would have them on their metrics for a whole year.

Hopefully the Spring update means they will actually do something to help sellers in these situations going forward, but I have to say this whole experience has made me pretty jaded. I'll need to see action, not just talk, from eBay before I'm convinced that they are taking seller protection seriously.

moonbloodstone · ‎05-10-2019

Thank You so Much for Your original post on this. I am gobsmacked by the Customer Service on this matter. I know I am not the smartest cracker in the box BUT...

In the United States, ALL addresses have a zip code and a 4 number code that specifies exactly what House, Apartment, business, etc. is at. THESE NUMBERS give a specific location that only belongs to one house apartment etc. If eBay really wanted to close the gap in this scam why don't they require everyone to submit the zip code and the 4 digit address location? This scam would be shut down rather quickly!

Why doesn't eBay do this? Do they have some ulterior reason not to do this?

autopiacarcare · ‎05-10-2019

@moonbloodstone wrote:
Thank You so Much for Your original post on this. I am gobsmacked by the Customer Service on this matter. I know I am not the smartest cracker in the box BUT...

In the United States, ALL addresses have a zip code and a 4 number code that specifies exactly what House, Apartment, business, etc. is at. THESE NUMBERS give a specific location that only belongs to one house apartment etc. If eBay really wanted to close the gap in this scam why don't they require everyone to submit the zip code and the 4 digit address location? This scam would be shut down rather quickly!

Why doesn't eBay do this? Do they have some ulterior reason not to do this?

Thanks @moonbloodstone .

In spite of the difficulty with eBay customer service on this one, I try to keep an even head about these issues and see things from all sides. From eBay's perspective, there could be multiple people at a particular address (who may not be involved in the scam) or the scammer could move and a new person could then have that address. If they were to just blanket block that address automatically, it could possibly end up blocking innocent buyers as well. As frustrating as this situation is, I can understand why eBay would be reluctant to take an action that could possibly keep a legitimate buyer from shopping on eBay.

That being said, I don't think a system which would flag certain addresses for review by an actual human would be too far out of line. That way if there is a legitimate situation where it's a new buyer who just moved there or something like that, there could be a way for them to provide additional information to eBay to review and "clear" that address if it has had suspicious activity associated with it in the past.

The biggest problem I see is that any suggestions for actually effectively combating this type of fraud would require eBay to invest in technology, personnel, and training. It would also require eBay to be willing to put themselves in the middle of the transaction and be the arbiter of facts on a case by case individual basis.

Everything we have seen lately from the customer service reps, the eBay employees here on the message boards, all the way up to the CEO at the top indicates to me that eBay is not able and/or not willing to do what it would take to even put a dent in the fraud problems here.

escuintla · ‎05-10-2019

In the insurance world, this is well known as the law of larger numbers. Scammers know that you rather let the refund go, rather than spending more money looking for solution because the price of the item is not worth the effort economically speaking.

_________________________________________________________
If you haven't paid for your item, you're a winning bidder, not a buyer!
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autopiacarcare · ‎07-19-2019

Boy, they sure are persistent....back again with another guest account, same address.

Is eBay ever going to do anything about this scammer?

remote_controls_and_more · ‎07-19-2019

@autopiacarcare wrote:
Boy, they sure are persistent....back again with another guest account, same address.

Is eBay ever going to do anything about this scammer?

Is the address a forwarding company or someones actual house?

dtexley3 · ‎07-19-2019

brian@ebay So this is a serial scammer, repeated attempts to circumvent the BBL, reported multiple times. How many bites at the apple do they get?

Member of the Grumpy Old Man crew

candiesduds · ‎07-19-2019

I didn't read this entire thread to see the whole situation but I would start reporting that person to others beside Ebay if they are a serial scammer. Try mail fraud maybe or internet fraud report, best of luck!

autopiacarcare · ‎07-20-2019

@remote_controls_and_more wrote:
@autopiacarcare wrote:
Boy, they sure are persistent....back again with another guest account, same address.

Is eBay ever going to do anything about this scammer?
Is the address a forwarding company or someones actual house?

@remote_controls_and_more - From Google maps, it looks like a residential building in a residential neighborhood. I don't believe it is a forwarding company.

autopiacarcare · ‎07-20-2019

@candiesduds wrote:
I didn't read this entire thread to see the whole situation but I would start reporting that person to others beside Ebay if they are a serial scammer. Try mail fraud maybe or internet fraud report, best of luck!

@candiesduds- Thanks. This has been going on since February and we have it pretty well covered as far as reporting and putting things in place in our internal systems to protect ourselves from future attempts.

At this point, I'm mostly just updating this thread for everyone who was following along and to continue to bring this issue to the attention of eBay and other sellers.

roaringspring-sports · ‎07-20-2019

Ebay will not help...I just went through a scammer situation...Ebay had the information that could help my case....it was a 120 USPS Tracking issues and a Paypal 180 days where they could file a claim but tracking numbers are purcged after 120 days......I dont want to go into my story...

but ebay will not help...

Ebay supports scammers....

autopiacarcare · ‎07-20-2019

@dtexley3 wrote:
brian@ebay So this is a serial scammer, repeated attempts to circumvent the BBL, reported multiple times. How many bites at the apple do they get?

Thanks @dtexley3 . I should also mention that the attempted "bites" are getting bigger. The transactions that started this thread were all in the $10-$25 range. They waited a couple of months to see if the dust would settle, then came back in April and tried to go for a $50 item. We caught that one and cancelled it. Then they waited a couple more months and came back around yesterday with a $100 item.

For anyone that has been selling online for more than a day, this is pretty standard procedure when it comes to dealing with fraud. We see it all the time with stolen credit cards on our direct sites. The smart ones start small to see if the card will work and hoping that smaller amounts won't raise any red flags. If they are successful, they then come back for the higher dollar items.

So just to reiterate:

1.) 5 of the 6 fraudulent transactions I reported on this thread are all tied to the same address.

2.) The person/persons involved show many signs of being experienced and calculating.

A.) They are very familiar with eBay policies and timelines when it comes to return reasons, tracking requirements, case escalations etc and know exactly how to use it to their advantage.

B.) They have knowledge and resources to gain access to legitimate tracking numbers that are for shipments being delivered to the seller's city/zip code. These shipments/tracking numbers are not associated with the buyer or seller in any obvious or provable way, but they know all they need is a tracking number with delivery in the right zip code to get a refund.

C.) Once they were successful with smaller transactions, they escalated to more expensive items.

D.) Even when it is obvious we are on to them, since there are no actual consequences for their actions, they simply wait a few months and test the waters again to see if they can get away with it.

From Merriam-Webster:

Pattern:

a reliable sample of traits, acts, tendencies, or other observable characteristics of a person, group, or institution

frequent or widespread incidence

autopiacarcare · ‎07-20-2019

Since the announcement of "new seller protections" in the Spring update, I have been concerned that this whole "guest account" issue represented a loophole since each guest buyer ID could only ever technically have one report against it, it would be impossible to establish a history of a "pattern of abuse" for that specific ID.

In the community chat on July 3rd, in regard to the "new seller protections", I asked:

1: How is eBay tracking the reports to establish that history? Is it done by buyer ID alone or are other factors considered when looking at a buyer's history to establish if there has been a pattern of abuse?

2: How does that get applied to guest account IDs? The nature of guest accounts usually means that specific ID will only have 1 transaction tied to it, so there would not be a possibility of a "history or pattern of abuse" for that ID.

The response I received from Trinton was:

Hi autopiacarcare, reports we receive are recorded on the member's account and we are able to identify when an individual has multiple accounts and take the activity across all accounts into consideration. Guest accounts are no different, as the factors that help us identify links between accounts are not reliant upon completing registration.

I am very interested to see what eBay has to say on this issue now, in light of that response.