Suspension for not uploading tracking?

[1stmobileuk]

I'm not a regular on forums, it's not something I generally have the time to get involved with, but I was intrigued to read an article on another forum about eBay suspension. I'm no allowed to post a link to the article on here (as far as I'm aware) but it's on a forum called WebRetailer and is entitled "eBay Account Suspended? Why It Happens and What You Should Do

This is from a guy in the US who is selling help to get people reinstated after a suspension. He is adamant that not uploading tracking details can lead to eBay suspension, but he has been challened by a couple of people who say it's not the case and have challenged him to prove it, which he is unable or unwilling to do. 

But I'm curious to know if this is true, as in most cases I don't upload tracking details. So can you be suspended for not uploading tracking? I mean in general, not as part of a claim. I've never heard of it and can find no reference to it anywhere. 

[1stmobileuk]

Yes exactly. I was aware of that, but cannot find anything about it being compulsory to do so which is why I think some of us are struggling to make sense of the metrics requirements.

[missjen831]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

I'm glad that you read it the same way! I wasn't sure if my mind was totally confused or if it was ebay that was confused.

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I read it the same way and I’ve read it 3 more times trying to figure out what it’s supposed to mean! I felt like a real dummy for a minute because I thought surely I’m not reading that right!

[missjen831]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

@missjen831

Now I'm confused so I'm going to ask what you think.  Although I disagreed with fabs about non trs sellers having to upload tracking, the link that they posted does have some info that I don't recall seeing before. It's a bit confusing to explain so please bear with me...

On that page there is a section titled:

Number of defect rates that affect your rating

and on the 4th chart below that heading it shows a chart for Tracking Uploaded on Time and Validated and gives a 5% under all sellers.  I realize that tracking being uploaded or tracking at all is not required by non trs so where did that 5% come in?

Plus, isn't the way that it is worded (see below) make it sound as if all sellers can have a max of 5% of transactions that are not uploaded on time and validated and trs can have a max of 95% percentage of transactions where tracking is not uploaded on time and/or validated? 

I think that it is supposed to read that trs can have a maximum of 5% of transactions that don't have tracking uploaded and validated and that 95% of their transactions must be uploaded on time and validated.  The all sellers portion shouldn't be in there at all.  Does that sound right?

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/seller-levels-performance-standards/seller-levels-performance-stan...

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@pjcdn2005 I saw that and read it the same way you did. I read it several times and it reads to me that a TRS can have 95% of their shipments invalidated! That can’t be right!

i don’t read it as saying tracking is a requirement for all sellers. But those numbers there are obviously wrong or we are a bunch of dummies!

[lacemaker3]

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@1stmobileuk wrote:

See, I've just found the Seller Update post on this which reads as follows:

SourceURL: https://sellercentre.ebay.co.uk/business/news/autumn2018/aftersales-improvements Improvements to our after-sales processes

• After 26 September 2018, you'll be required to upload tracking information onto the site within the estimated delivery date, in order for eBay to protect you against Item not received claims.

That doesn't say anything about it being compulsory, or affecting metrics, it only says it's in order to protect you against INR claims. I know you're not gonig to be covered if somebody files a claim as they won't accept tracking at that point if you haven't already uploaded it, but I'm still not sure if it's compulsory or not. That doesn't suggest that it is. 

Note: The September date in the UK has now been postponed until February 2019.

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Well, you don't have ANY protection against INR claims if you DON'T upload tracking, so that's nothing new.

The only change here is the time frame. You have to upload the tracking number before the last estimated delivery date. You can't wait until the buyer has opened a claim, and then suddenly decide to provide the tracking number. This seems very reasonable.

I think they are doing this so that they can expedite the process, which is rather drawn out if you have to give each side 5 business days to respond to every little thing. If the tracking number is already available, then they can quickly determine if the item has a delivery or attempted delivery scan, or alternatively if it has not been received by the carrier yet, or is in transit and making progress towards its destination, or has been lost.

It's not compulsory to upload tracking, it's just the only way you will have any protection against an INR claim.

[buyselljack2016]

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@missjen831 wrote:

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

I'm glad that you read it the same way! I wasn't sure if my mind was totally confused or if it was ebay that was confused.

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I read it the same way and I’ve read it 3 more times trying to figure out what it’s supposed to mean! I felt like a real dummy for a minute because I thought surely I’m not reading that right!

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Only 3 times:)  I read it 5 times before posting, and 5 more after. It still reads the same. It's eBay speak. A different language.

[pjcdn2005]

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@nobody*s_perfect wrote:

That still wouldn't be right.  Tracking "uploaded within handling time and validated" is used ONLY for assessing TRS status.  It isn't relevant to seller performance in any other way.  

That whole box needs to go; it could/should be replaced by a single sentence. Or they could just get rid of that TRS requirement altogether. It predates the more elaborate shipping time evaluation which is based on timely scans.

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Also, I just noticed that uploading tracking isn't even mentioned in the area above which describes requirements to become a trs. To me it is a fairly major requirement which should be mentioned in that area.

Becoming a Top Rated Seller

Becoming a Top Rated Seller indicates that you consistently deliver outstanding customer service, and also makes you eligible to receive a prominent Top Rated Plus seal on qualifying listings.

To become a Top Rated Seller, you'll need to:

• Have an eBay account that's been active for at least 90 days
• Have at least 100 transactions and $1,000 in sales with US buyers over the past 12 months
• Comply with eBay's selling practices policy
• Meet the requirements for transaction defect rate, cases closed without seller resolution and late shipment rate. You'll find the requirements in the table below

If you've met these performance standards requirements on eBay.com, we'll automatically upgrade you to the Top Rated Seller status at your next evaluation.

[ted_200]

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@1stmobileuk wrote:
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Just seems odd that this guy is so insistent that you can.

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Some observations (didn't read the replies, maybe already pointed out).

You don't get suspended for not uploading tracking on this site (.com).  There are other sites, with other policies, I can't say what the requirements are on eBay.uk or some other site.

On .com, simply not uploading tracking won't get you suspended.  However that can produce Item Not Received cases (including fraudulent ones), and if you don't voluntarily refund on those, eBay will do it for you, and too many cases that have to be resolved by eBay CAN get you suspended.  So technically, he's right, it CAN get you suspended, but it won't if you deal with the refunding yourself.

Now, there's going to be new metric, and if too many people open up INR cases (even ones you DO deal with by refunding), that will cause them to extend your Estimated Handling Time they show to buyers. 

Also, logic would seem to dictate that if you sold hundreds of items, and every single one got no tracking uploaded, and every single one caused an INR case (in other words, you never ship anything), and you then refunded every one voluntarily, they would eventually suspend you anyhow.  However applying logic to anything eBay does could prove to be an error, and this presumptive logic on my part is no exception.

[ted_200]

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@1stmobileuk wrote:
Just to clarify that, I should have read a little more first but here's the full information:

"Upload tracking to prevent “Item not received” claims
We want to make selling and buying on eBay as fair as possible, so we’re updating our tracking policy. Starting 26 September 2018, you’ll be required to upload tracking before the estimated delivery date has passed. This is so that eBay can protect you if a buyer claims they haven’t received the item.

Sending the tracking number to the buyer via email or uploading it after the estimated delivery date has passed won’t protect you from a claim. We always recommend you upload tracking information as soon as you have posted the item.

Without tracking information, eBay can’t protect you because we won’t be able to confirm that your item has been delivered. Tracking also benefits buyers by enabling them to track the status of their deliveries.

For more information about uploading tracking details to the site, please see our help page on tracking items you’ve sold. If an “Item not received” claim is opened before this tracking information is uploaded, eBay won’t be able to protect you against any losses."

Nothing there about it being compulsory to upload tracking.

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This is something else, which involves when you will or won't be protected by using tracking.  It isn't applicable to when you don't have tracking, which obviously is never going to be uploaded. 

But it brings up an interesting potential "gotcha" I'm not sure about.  Since you don't have any tracking uploaded (whether you had any to start with or not), is eBay planning on auto-refunding those INR claims for you immediately?  Or are they still going to give the seller time to refund voluntarily? 

And if they're going to refund for you immediately, will that then constitute a "claim without seller resolution", which counts as a "Defect" and which could result in you being suspended? 

I realize that sounds totally ridiculous, which is why I'm suspicious about it...

[Anonymous]

Ted, for regular returns and for SNADs if the seller doesn't refund within 2 business days of the return tracking showing delivery eBay will put through the refund automatically and it won't count as a defect as long as eBay isn't asked to step in.

I don't know if they'll start auto-refunding on INRs without tracking, but if they do it shouldn't count as a defect as long as eBay is not asked to step in.

[ted_200]

I don't know if they'll start auto-refunding on INRs without tracking, but if they do it shouldn't count as a defect as long as eBay is not asked to step in.

That makes sense, but did they actually say that?  Otherwise, eBay doing stuff that doesn't make sense is fairly normal and I'm worried about it. 

[Anonymous]

I don't blame you, Ted.

@Anonymous

Can you clarify on the above INR question (scroll up 2-3 posts) - thanks in advance.

[1stmobileuk]

Yes that does make sense, as I thinking that the whole point of this is to try to get as many sellers as possible to simply accept auto-refunding and move on (and accept you've probably been ripped off when your new items come back battered rather than try to fight the case).

Annoyingly I have to concede they probably have a point. I think a lot of us fight these things on principle but logistically it's time consuming, often fruitless, and unless the item is worth a lot of money, ultimately pointless even if you win.

The danger is that doing nothing will simply lead to more scammers as more people get used to the idea that they can claim and automatically get it accepted no matter what.

For me it's just another reminder why I'm concentrating less and less on eBay these days.

[1stmobileuk]

Clarification.

According to a very experienced UK seller who is generally well clued up on all things eBay, here's the difference between the US and UK policy, in his words:

"The USA rules require 95% tracking upload to keep TRS.
The UK rules only need it to get the TRS discount and item not received protection"

But as he noted we in the UK will then have far more showing up late and then lose TRS as a result anyway. 

I'm genrally not too concerned about INR claims when a service is sent tracked as I find it's rare that anybody attempts to claim, it's generally the cheaper untracked items that cause that INR problem. 

[ted_200]

Yes that does make sense, as I thinking that the whole point of this is to try to get as many sellers as possible to simply accept auto-refunding and move on (and accept you've probably been ripped off when your new items come back battered rather than try to fight the case).

That's for an actual return, or a SNAD dispute "return request" though.  The seller uploading the tracking number issue is pretty irrelevant for that.  On an INR, for an item with no tracking number, it's already a given you're going to refund it and get nothing back - there is no fighting that case.  But did the person who wrote what you read misinterpret the new policy?  Or, did they actually interpret it correctly?  Being a "in the future" policy, I'm not sure... that's not how it works today (unless eBay has to refund it for you), but the devil with eBay policy changes is in the (sometimes unstated) details, and if eBay does the refunding for you now immediately... since you have no protection...

[1stmobileuk]

Yes maybe it's still unclear to everyone. Nobody seems to be 100% sure at the moment and there's no point asking eBay support, you'll get a different answer every time you call.