Successfully challenge return on "no return" item and protect my eBay and Paypal accounts?

[lauralemur]

Need advice as this is my first experience with this issue:

I sold a football collectible for several hundred dollars recently - the listing clearly stated "no returns", "as-is", "ask questions", described the only flaw, and I provided multiple detailed photos.  It was sold as "ungraded" (not professionally assessed for condition).  The item was paid for, and mailed (received 28 days ago).  I got a message today from the buyer who claims (without proof) he took it to get graded and the company told him the item was altered (to enhance condition).  This is absolutely not true.  He is asking for a full or parital refund.  I believe the buyer just has remorse - the item is from the losing team in the superbowl, and the going prices on similar items dropped significantly afterwards.   I have just read up on the misleading "no return" and MBG issues for sellers, and I'm dismayed.  I am pretty sure he'll file a claim, just within the 30 days.  If so, how and what can I do to successfully challenge this?  Can he claim the item is "not as described", when it was clearly sold as ungraded and I included clear photos and descriptions?  How can I protect my ebay and paypal accounts?  Should I disconnect my credit card from my paypal account so my personal finances are not messed with if ebay decides in his favor?  I have been on ebay for 19 years and have 100% feedback with over 2,000 transactions.  A return of this amount would be a huge hit to my finances.  Thanks for any advice!

[luckythewinner]

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@lauralemurwrote:

The final bid was just over $600.  I ask about the credit card because my paypal account does not have a balance to cover the amount - so I am thinking my credit card would be charged to cover it.

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I know exactly why you asked about your credit card - you want to avoid paying the bill if it comes due. 

But if you want to get  in a competition with eBay to see who can do the most damage to whom, they will win. 

It will come down to the fact that eBay has both the legal high ground and the ability to do damage - and you don't have either.

[lauralemur]

Ugh - thanks. An expensive lesson. Not looking to do anything shady on my end, just figuring out if I can protect myself or properly challenge it...has anyone at all successfully fought and won? I appreciate everyone's insight. Ebay will lose me as a seller (I know, they don't care). If I accept a return - is there a way to prevent being ripped off - requiring USPS insurance/tracking?

[dylamontoy2]

Loses in business are to be expected. It's how you handle them that counts.
Send the buyer a label with tracking (you can do it through the return center).

Don't let keep you from selling on eBay, just use add reminder that high value transactions need to be covered in your account for at least 180 days. (30 for eBay, 180 for PayPal and credit cards)

[myboardid]

If the buyer returns the ball, there is no way you can refuse to refund the money.  Just no way at all. 

If the buyer returns an empty box, you will still have to refund the money.  You can then charge the buyer with internet fraud and mail fraud, but you would still have to take him to small claims court, get a judgement, and then try to collect it, which might be nearly impossible. 

[*eponymous*]

challenge return on "no return" item

"No returns" only applies to buyer's remorse returns.

Send a UPS/FedEx call tag instead of a return postage label.

It sounds as though you already escalated the case.

If the buyer loses with ebay and files a chargeback, you probably will not get the ball back.

[bigchief2472000]

Did the buyer specify whether they had the card graded in person or mailed it off to get graded?  If they mailed it off to get graded, and they admit that, you may be able to win a case since they would not be able to prove that the grading company didn't switch out the card, intentionally or mistakenly.

[kattinsanity]

Since it is highly likely you will get an empty envelope back and the buyer will keep the card maybe it's better to cut your losses and make an offer of a partial refund.  It might be easier to be out $100.00 than over $600.00 and the buyer will still have the card.  If he files a not as described case he will win no matter what you say in the listing.  You do admit in the listing that there is an imperfection which would take away from its value.

[flyerfandan999]

"Received a message from Buyer..." could mean a lot of things, and depending upon details, affect how you react.

A.  You received a message in your regular email, not eBay messages----Ignore.

B.  You received a message in eBay messages----Ignore.

C.  You received a message from eBay in the Resolution Center that the Buyer has requested a return/refund for the $600 Tom Brady card----contact the Buyer and "play dumb."  On eBay, the return/refund decision process is heavily skewed in the Buyer's favor, so engaging the Buyer within the eBay messages channel is a tactic whereby you hope the Buyer says something that can be viewed by eBay deciders to your advanatge, should you decide to ask eBay to step in and render a decision.

I don't necessarily agree with most of the other posters to this topic who seem to be advocating a "bend over" approach where you would just accept the return and refund, or offer a partial return.  I don't see where you did anything other than deliver to the Buyer in a timely manner the item that was described in the listing.  The Buyer has told you they had a grading service look at the card, but they have yet to prove that.  They claim the grading service says the card was altered to enhance condition, which has yet to be proven, but even if that were true, the "enhanced condition" is the condition at which the card was presented in your listing and was good enough to be purchased by the Buyer, so it's immaterial to eBay's standard of delivering  items in as described condition.

[lauralemur]

Thanks flyerfandan999 and bigchief2472000- I think I'll try to fight it if it goes to a case.
Interesting insight about the format for messages and extracting information. In the seller's unsolicited ebay message (not regular email or resolution) he said "I sent it away for grading as it appeared to be in good condition" - wonder if I can use this information in a counter claim, since he felt it looked good and then mailed it off to another party? He says the grader said the card is trimmed (it's not, I've owned it since removing it from the original sealed pack back in 2000 when it had no value). I doubt the timeframe is even realistic for a mail-away grading - would likely take more than 28 days to mail, grade, and return mail - but even if this really happened, I have read a number of online threads about different grading companies rejecting known-intact cards for this reason, only to have other companies say otherwise (or the same company make a different finding on re-submission). Personally, I think his issue is with the grader if he is telling the truth. Would be different maybe if the ebay description said "get it graded" or "gradable". Wonder if ebay will see it that way?

[luckythewinner]

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@lauralemurwrote:
 If I accept a return - is there a way to prevent being ripped off - requiring USPS insurance/tracking?

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Insurance will not prevent fraud. 

Tracking will not prevent fraud. 

Signature confirmation will not prevent fraud. 

Videotaping yourself mailing it will not prevent fraud. 

A notarized staement from your priest will not prevent fraud. 

Generally speaking, a buyer can use a fraudulent SNAD claim to steal any item from any seller at any time - as long as he does not make a mistake while stealing it. 

I haven't had a SNAD in three years - but even so, I make sure that I never sell anything I cannot afford to lose (and pay to ship to a thief). 

[arnolstjame-0]

You're going to lose, and on eBay, no returns doesn't mean no refunds.

[ittybitnot]

Generally speaking, a buyer can use a fraudulent SNAD claim to steal any item from any seller at any time - as long as he does not make a mistake while stealing it. 

Very important point.  One cannot nor should not ever rely on any ebay claim of seller protectiion from a phony snad or faulty return. 

[bigchief2472000]

I will give your fair warning that if you try to fight it and lose, the buyer will probably get the keep the card and get their money refunded.  It's up to you if you want to take that risk.  I seriously doubt that anyone you're able to talk to at ebay will have any comprehension of the card grading process, but I would simply point out the fact that they buyer sent the item to a third party and there is no way of knowing whether that third party returned the same item back to the buyer.

[lauralemur]

 Thanks for the advice and taking your time to help bigchief2472000 and everyone here - have learned a lot from you guys. 

If I offer a partial refund does this protect/prevent from further actions (full refund) through ebay or Paypal?   If not, would I stand to lose the partial refund plus the full value of the item?

[marinermikes]

The buyer said it was trimmed when you know in fact that it was not!  Be wiling to bet it was never sent anywhere! The buyer felt he paid to much for it and is fishing for a partial.  If the buyer does not file a snad with EBay within thirty days they will loose. If they take it to pay enemy within one hundred eighty days you will loose.

Ask the buyer for a copy of the appraisal. If he sends one check the date on it.

EBay has put you in a no win situation! Why do I have the feeling that if you end up having it returned you are going to end up with a trimmed card? It may well be that this person has a card that had been trimmed and was looking to upgrade to a card that wasn't trimmed. If he does have a appraisal for a card who says it's for the card you sold! Probably for they card they already had!

Sorry this happened to you.

You also are suppose to keep enough money in your accounts for this sort of thing. Not thirty days, but six months.  That's why I stopped selling expensive items here. I had to switch to items that have pretty much a zero return rate. That's a shame. I had to stop selling items that I love working on and selling here because of this exact thing!