Soocial security #

[vieuxjoyaux]

Hi

I am selling a lot of stuff accumulated through the years, I am not a business. I was happy to just get things out of my house, I really have too many things.

A while ago I inquired how to stay with paypal because I did not want to give my SS# to ebay. Here is what I was told: Thank you so much for your patience. What I will do here then is to send your account information to so that you will not be transitioned for the managed payments to keep using PayPal.

Then I received an new ebay mail telling me if I do not register I will not be able to make new sell. I contacted ebay through chatand this is what I was told:

Unfortunately this will be the new process for selling items on eBay. We will now permanently cut ties with PayPal. Your listing abilities will be restricted if you will not be opted in to Manage Payments.

Im sorry but that is correct , you can only continue using Paypal if you are listing items under categories such as Coins & paper money, gift cards & coupons, ebay motors other than that there is no option to opt out.

So can any one tell  why those people do not have to expose their SS#.

Thank you

does any one knows why some sells can still happen with paypal

[itscalledapostingid]

Does anyone actually believe a money processor handling billions of dollars/millions of transactions with so many individuals and businesses would be allowed to operate without having those identities confirmed by SSN or EIN and reporting it all to the IRS?

I don't think anyone believes that.

To comply with the due diligence of AML, knowing your customer guidelines and reporting to the IRS the SSN  or equivalent would be necessary.
Getting it later would not be acceptable or practical...a new user could list an auction that sells for $200,000. Then what?

Ebay is doing what is necessary for them to comply with the laws.

[mam98031]

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@veronicabooksandart wrote:

I would imagine yes - that the laws are stricter for banks. So I will take this opportunity to parrot one this boards favorite distinctions: Paypal is not a bank... Adyen is not a bank... and eBay is a front.
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Mercari acknowledges thresholds.

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The distinction is that Money Processors fall under many of the same rules as banks do.  Not all, but some very important once as I noted up thread.

[itscalledapostingid]

There would not be any point in Ebay listing an item from someone who does not provide the SSN. Without the SSN they can't send the 1099. If they can't send the 1099 they can't processs the payments.
If they can't process the payments the buyer can't complete the purchase - then everyone is unhappy.

[espresso_warehouse]

Maybe you should just read the law. They do not have to report people with less than 200 transactions or 20k.

[espresso_warehouse]

The thing you people seem to be missing is that eBay isn't required to send 1099s to people who have fewer than 200 transactions or less than 20k total per year.

Knowing eBay, I wouldn't expect them to spend the money to put those documents together for anyone who doesn't meet the thresholds. Anyone who does not meet the threshold and receives a 1099, I would be curious to hear about that. In fact it might change my mind about giving them the information, if they are truly responsible enough to 1099 EVERYONE regardless of amount.

[espresso_warehouse]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@veronicabooksandart wrote:

I would imagine yes - that the laws are stricter for banks. So I will take this opportunity to parrot one this boards favorite distinctions: Paypal is not a bank... Adyen is not a bank... and eBay is a front.
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Mercari acknowledges thresholds.

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The distinction is that Money Processors fall under many of the same rules as banks do.  Not all, but some very important once as I noted up thread.

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Money processor?

It's Payment Processor. As you point out, not all payment processors require SSN at $0 like ebay does, and what they are doing is perfectly legal.

The law is clear, 200 transactions or 20k. It's eBay policy, not 'Federal Law' that requires them to take your SSN at $0

[mam98031]

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@espresso_warehouse wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@veronicabooksandart wrote:

I would imagine yes - that the laws are stricter for banks. So I will take this opportunity to parrot one this boards favorite distinctions: Paypal is not a bank... Adyen is not a bank... and eBay is a front.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mercari acknowledges thresholds.

---

The distinction is that Money Processors fall under many of the same rules as banks do.  Not all, but some very important once as I noted up thread.

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Money processor?

It's Payment Processor. As you point out, not all payment processors require SSN at $0 like ebay does, and what they are doing is perfectly legal.

The law is clear, 200 transactions or 20k. It's eBay policy, not 'Federal Law' that requires them to take your SSN at $0

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AGAIN, you are referring to what IRS requirements are.

Money Processor, Payment Processor, Money Transmitter, MSB [money service business]etc.  They are all the same thing, just depends on who you ask as to what they call it.  AMLs and the Patriots Act refer to them as MSB's.

Since you seem to be hung up on the IRS threshold for a 1099K, what is your answer to Money processors that now have to do 1099Ks for states as low as $600?  8 states and likely more by the end of this year require 1099Ks.

[espresso_warehouse]

Your initial claim was that 'Federal Law' requires eBay to get your SSN before they can process a single dollar or list an item. I hope it is obvious to you now that is false.

I was simply addressing the often repeated false claim(it's a pet peeve of mine, I admit I am a pedant). I didn't ever say anything about 'state law', you are moving the target instead of admitting you were wrong about the federal law thing.

[maxine*j]

But how is eBay to know in advance what any seller's total transactions or total sales amount will be? 

Is it feasible for eBay, at the end of the year, to look at transactions/sales and say: "Oh, these 496,817 people need 1099s.  Guess we'd better contact them for their SSNs so we can get those forms out by the end of January, at the latest."

Also, I really do think that now that eBay is the "money handler" for sellers that it is required to get their SSNs.    At least, that is my understanding.  It's why financial investment counsellors and brokers have to get your SSN, and why real estate escrow companies do, to name just a couple of other situations where people may be surprised to be asked for their SSNs but where it is required.

[southern*sweet*tea]

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@espresso_warehouse wrote:

The thing you people seem to be missing is that eBay isn't required to send 1099s to people who have fewer than 200 transactions or less than 20k total per year.

Knowing eBay, I wouldn't expect them to spend the money to put those documents together for anyone who doesn't meet the thresholds. Anyone who does not meet the threshold and receives a 1099, I would be curious to hear about that. In fact it might change my mind about giving them the information, if they are truly responsible enough to 1099 EVERYONE regardless of amount.

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In my state (MS) the threshold is $600 with no transaction limit. This is actually a new thing, until this tax year (2021) it was the same as the Federal limit. Next year I'll get a 1099.

Several other states have different thresholds as posted upthread.

[itscalledapostingid]

I am not sure the SSN requirement would need to be spelled out in the law and I do not know if it is because I am not the one who keeps asking for text of the law. Ebay would need to figure out what is needed to comply with those laws. I am sure they have teams of lawyers to make sure they are in compliance.
Looking at a brief overview of AML would explain why the SSN needs to be required for each account: Without that unique identifier for each tax payer there would be nothing to keep someone from creating a hundred accounts with phony names to avoid the threshholds you mentioned. That threshhold is $600 in some states now (Look it up. Some of these changes were in the news this year.) Ebay is not going to put themsleves in a position where it be impossible for them to comply with the law. That is the position they would be in if they did not ask for the SSN up front.

[maxine*j]

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@southern*sweet*tea wrote:

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...  In my state (MS) the threshold is $600 with no transaction limit. This is actually a new thing, until this tax year (2021) it was the same as the Federal limit. Next year I'll get a 1099.

Several other states have different thresholds as posted upthread.

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And here in Pennsylvania, and I quote from RevenuePA:  "Every resident, part-year resident or nonresident individual must file a Pennsylvania Income Tax Return (PA-40) when he or she realizes income generating $1 or more in tax, even if no tax is due."

[mam98031]

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@itscalledapostingid wrote:

I am not sure the SSN requirement would need to be spelled out in the law and I do not know if it is because I am not the one who keeps asking for text of the law. Ebay would need to figure out what is needed to comply with those laws. I am sure they have teams of lawyers to make sure they are in compliance.
Looking at a brief overview of AML would explain why the SSN needs to be required for each account: Without that unique identifier for each tax payer there would be nothing to keep someone from creating a hundred accounts with phony names to avoid the threshholds you mentioned. That threshhold is $600 in some states now (Look it up. Some of these changes were in the news this year.) Ebay is not going to put themsleves in a position where it be impossible for them to comply with the law. That is the position they would be in if they did not ask for the SSN up front.

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I've tried explaining this a few times and my post #60 on this thread has more details and links.  You are correct in your assessment.  But for some this is a difficult thing to accept for whatever reason they may have.  There isn't much any of us can do about that.  

[dognessy]

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@nobody*s_perfect wrote:

As a payment processor, eBay must provide you (and the IRS) with a Form 1099-K if you pass the required thresholds. The federal thresholds are 200 transactions and $20,000, but several states have set limits as low as $600.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/fees-credits-invoices/ebay-form-1099k?id=4794 

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These are they keywords! IF YOU PASS....

Well, I'm certainly sell way below the limit, and I sell for charity, so why why why I need to provide my SSN???? This is ridiculous and dangerous! 

I'm moving, after 20+ years,  out from eBay completely (buy and cell) , to Amazon, eBid and Bonanza.  

[nobody*s_perfect]

"why why why I need to provide my SSN?"

Because the eBay psychic team is even weaker than their programming team.  They cannot forecast  whether you'll relocate to a state with a low threshold, or whether your state will soon have one. eBay is merely covering their own behind by making certain that they have tax IDs for every account that will need a 1099-K next January.    The number of states with low thresholds grows every year.

Selling for charity doesn't matter.

All payment processors are under the same constraints so will probably end up with similar policies.