Selling options use SHIP address logic, but FEE logic uses Registration address logic?

[chris13]

Some top notch posters inadvertently hijacked a thread that I would like to continue in a proper context.

@kathiec re: As for the use of a freight fowarder causing problems, exactly what problems would those be? 

Background: I learned today that use of 'USA' in a buyers info & shipping address legitimately can represent a freight forwarder being used that should be 'no problem' for a seller, even if I have set my listing to not support international sales which translates to "not shipping to a non-US address" I am told.

How can you prevent buyers registered in another c... - The eBay Community

(quote from that thread)

"buyers who are registered in another country but use a US ship to address can still buy your item. You do not find out until the sale is complete and you look at your payout details and this is what you see:

(This is MY unexpected charge for a US sale for an item marked 'no international shipping', not from post above)

International Fee

Charged because the buyer’s registered address is in Japan. Final amount: $290.00. -$4.79

Rate$290.00x1.65% =-$4.79

I would suggest that when I specify no International shipping, and as you point out I am NOT shipping internationally, that being charged an International Fee is in fact a problem when it is something I have intended to prevent and cannot predict as an expense.

Fees use 'registered address' but policies use 'shipping address' <<< This is poor policy logic

I understand completely there is overhead for a foreign currency transaction, but this transaction is one that is between eBay and the BUYER by permitting freight forwarding and not allowing any reasonable way to prevent the charge except onerous workaround of snooping a buyer after a sale and cancelling an order.

OK, got that off my chest. Fire away and tell me how I am wrong on this one.

Best wishes.

[dbfolks166mt]

Okay, I may be wrong, but I am sure I read somewhere that if you sign up to the EIS - eBay International Shipping (NOT the GSP) that as from March 1st the 1.65% international fee is no longer charged??

If this is correct I would be signing on for it and at least you get no surprises anymore and FF will be irrelevant as the OS buyer can purchase direct.

Can someone confirm please?

     According to the EIS policy and information you would be correct. If you are using EIS then there is no longer any international fee. The  EIS program also makes a LOT of other claims that will only be proven over time. It is not uncommon for eBay to waffle on its policies or promises. 

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/shipping-items/setting-shipping-options/ebay-international-shippin... 

     However, EIS will probably not make the FF's irrelevant but that will have to be determined by the buyers. The big advantage to the use of FF's for many buyers is a huge reduction in cost that I am not sure even EIS can compete with. 

[yuzuha]

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@pburn wrote:

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Can you clarify whether a seller is allowed to cancel transactions based on the buyer's use of a freight forwarder? Or is that a misuse of eBay's cancellation policy? Thanks.

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The blues have clarified many times on the forums that it is NOT acceptable to cancel for that reason.

[dbfolks166mt]

@pburn wrote:

Can you clarify whether a seller is allowed to cancel transactions based on the buyer's use of a freight forwarder? Or is that a misuse of eBay's cancellation policy? Thanks.

The blues have clarified many times on the forums that it is NOT acceptable to cancel for that reason.

     Yes they have and they have also waffled on the eBay seller protection regarding the use of FF's that states once the item arrives at the FF the sellers responsibility is complete. Bottom line it's not eBay's risk or their items/money. If the blues want to pony up the money for any INR's, NAD's... that come from either eBay cases or chargebacks, where the buyer has used a FF then eBay, or the blues, have some ground to stand on. 

     One other note with regards to FF's. That is NOT strictly a US based business. There is suspicion that China is helping Russia get around the sanctions imposed due to the invasion of the Ukraine by Chinese based FF's receiving merchandise from around the world at a FF then shipping it up the one road into Russia. 

[kyle@ebay]

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@pburn wrote:

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@chris13 wrote:

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Buyer Notice: I will check your registered feedback locale and cancel any orders where it is not USA. I do not intend to ship internationally which also means SELL internationally. This includes doing so via Freight forwarding services which incurs fees from eBay that are not clearly disclosed or within a seller's control. Save us both the trouble and do not purchase if you are using a freight forwarding service. Thanks for understanding, this prevents me from arbitrarily raising prices for everyone to cover unplanned costs.

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devon@ebay 

elizabeth@ebay 

kyle@ebay 

Can you clarify whether a seller is allowed to cancel transactions based on the buyer's use of a freight forwarder? Or is that a misuse of eBay's cancellation policy? Thanks.

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Hey @pburn thanks for checking.  It is not appropriate to cancel an order simply because the buyer is using a freight forwarder.  Of course, as a seller, you are only responsible to ship to the address on the order itself, so if the item makes it there and gets lost afterward, you would be protected.  

[pburn]

Thanks for the clarification, kyle@ebay! 

[kyle@ebay]

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@yuzuha wrote:

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@pburn wrote:

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Can you clarify whether a seller is allowed to cancel transactions based on the buyer's use of a freight forwarder? Or is that a misuse of eBay's cancellation policy? Thanks.

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The blues have clarified many times on the forums that it is NOT acceptable to cancel for that reason.

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Hey @yuzuha thanks for pointing this out and helping spread the word.  

@dbfolks166mt If you have any specific questions about coverage when freight forwarders are involved, I'd be happy to answer them.  Just tag me with your questions and I'll be happy to help!  

[pburn]

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@yuzuha wrote:

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@pburn wrote:

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Can you clarify whether a seller is allowed to cancel transactions based on the buyer's use of a freight forwarder? Or is that a misuse of eBay's cancellation policy? Thanks.

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The blues have clarified many times on the forums that it is NOT acceptable to cancel for that reason.

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You know that, and I know that . . . but there are sellers who seem to either be unaware of the policy violation or are willing to operate that way anyway. 

[stainlessenginecovers]

@dbfolks166mt 

I can confirm that it TRUE- the 1.65% International Purchase Fee is NOT CHARGED to the seller. 

[pburn]

@dbfolks166mt wrote:

     One other note with regards to FF's. That is NOT strictly a US based business. There is suspicion that China is helping Russia get around the sanctions imposed due to the invasion of the Ukraine by Chinese based FF's receiving merchandise from around the world at a FF then shipping it up the one road into Russia. 

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eBay's cancellation policy is based on a customer's shipping address, not where the freight forwarding business is based. Whether it is or is not "strictly a US based business" is irrelevant. Unfounded "suspicion" does not appear to be listed as an exception to eBay's policy.

[harafkac0]

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@joliztoyco wrote:

Huh?
Raise the prices on everyone to pay for the shipping to buyers you have specifically excluded from your auctions?
You DO know how insane that sounds, right?

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Not at all, I raise prices on everyone just to cover the costs of a few without much hesitation.

It is in fact a standard business practice.

[harafkac0]

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@dbfolks166mt wrote:

@pburn wrote:

Can you clarify whether a seller is allowed to cancel transactions based on the buyer's use of a freight forwarder? Or is that a misuse of eBay's cancellation policy? Thanks.

The blues have clarified many times on the forums that it is NOT acceptable to cancel for that reason.

     Yes they have and they have also waffled on the eBay seller protection regarding the use of FF's that states once the item arrives at the FF the sellers responsibility is complete. Bottom line it's not eBay's risk or their items/money. If the blues want to pony up the money for any INR's, NAD's... that come from either eBay cases or chargebacks, where the buyer has used a FF then eBay, or the blues, have some ground to stand on. 

     One other note with regards to FF's. That is NOT strictly a US based business. There is suspicion that China is helping Russia get around the sanctions imposed due to the invasion of the Ukraine by Chinese based FF's receiving merchandise from around the world at a FF then shipping it up the one road into Russia. 

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The political climate of foreign countries, NATO sanctions and circumventions, any and all of that falls outside our responsibility as sellers, however if you wish to take on this responsibility then ebay may not be the platform for you to sell on.

Our responsibility as sellers is to get the package to the buyer's ship to address.

Once the package arrives at the buyer's ship to address, our responsibility ends.

When it comes to FF's it works to our advantage, if you are familiar with the INAD/INR process then you would know the buyer loses all purchase protection schemes by using the FF.

Other than the little 2% fee I fail to understand why we're taking these issues to the nth degree.

We're not helping matters by overthinking these things.

[kyle@ebay]

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@pburn wrote:

Thanks for the clarification, kyle@ebay! 

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You are very welcome!  And it never hurts to double check, just in case something may have changed.  

[pburn]

kyle@ebay 

Looks like the OP has offered to buy you a coffee!

[kyle@ebay]

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@pburn wrote:

kyle@ebay 

Looks like the OP has offered to buy you a coffee!

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Hey @chris13 that's very generous of you!  I'd love to take you up on it, but unfortunately we're spread across the U.S.  But coffee or not, we're always happy to help!

[dbfolks166mt]

@dbfolks166mt wrote:

     One other note with regards to FF's. That is NOT strictly a US based business. There is suspicion that China is helping Russia get around the sanctions imposed due to the invasion of the Ukraine by Chinese based FF's receiving merchandise from around the world at a FF then shipping it up the one road into Russia. 

eBay's cancellation policy is based on a customer's shipping address, not where the freight forwarding business is based. Whether it is or is not "strictly a US based business" is irrelevant. Unfounded "suspicion" does not appear to be listed as an exception to eBay's policy.

     Regardless of eBay's policy I will continue to cancel shipments that are going through/to countries that I do not wish to sell to period. As for suspicion there are a number of articles on the internet and I have a number of friends that work for government organizations in the DC area that say it is pretty much a fact that China, along with several other countries, are assisting Russia with getting around the sanctions. 

https://www.universalcargo.com/is-china-helping-shippers-get-around-russian-sanctions/